Narrator: The views, opinions and conclusions expressed in the upcoming program
are those of the participants and program owners,
and not necessarily those of Las Vegas Broadcasters Incorporated,
or its employees, management or owners.
Tim Berends: Thank you, Jerry!
Hello, and welcome to Jesus and Tim in Las Vegas.
My name is Tim Berends, coming to you from the secret suicide capital
of the United States of America.
Las Vegas, Nevada: where suicides are never reported in the media,
unless it's a murder-suicide.
"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."
Well, God knows.
Well, we're delighted to come your way every Saturday afternoon,
Brandon will have today's program up on "Jesus and Tim in Las Vegas"
on YouTube here shortly.
You can also see some of the, or hear some of the other interviews
that the Lord's allowed me to do, over the years.
One's with Kurt and Brenda Warner.
Kurt was that quarterback who at the Super Bowl in 2000
was gonna be interviewed by a reporter, and he said,
"First things first: Thank You, Jesus!"
Kurt was very open about his faith, and I so appreciate that.
And it reminded me last week of that, the Super Bowl that I saw with the Philadelphia Eagle
I could have cared less who was gonna win that game until
I found out that the quarterback was a believer,
and the coach was a believer.
When's the last time you heard a coach say,
"Lord Jesus Christ," when he wasn't swearing?
I was so thrilled, not only with the coach
and the quarter back, but several of the other players,
being outspoken about their faith.
They have Bible studies, they've baptized some of the guys.
It's just amazing what they've been allowed to do.
The quarterback was studying to be in the ministry,
and he got the "call to the NFL."
But he's gonna be going back to the ministry, I guess,
when his days at the NFL are finished.
I love Chick Publications.
I've been handing out Chick tracts for years.
Jack Chick was a dear friend of mine, ever since 1975.
He was popular then, before his stand against
the Whore of Revelation 17, before the Alberto series.
Jack and used to talk every day for about 5 minutes at 5:00.
And he'd want a report on what the Lord was doing here
in Las Vegas.
And then when Jack passed away at the age of 92
about a year ago, David Daniels, his right-hand man,
for several years took over (writing tracts).
And I just love David.
You know, you hear about some of these organizations.
They really go liberal after the person who founded it dies.
Charles Fuller, Fuller Seminary and all.
But he's not that way.
Dave's not that way.
Last night we were on Fremont Street Dan Fox, Mitchell Nimmoor Jr. and I,
handing out "Love the Jewish People."
We've handed this out, Mike Cahill, Jayne Hanning and I
have handed this out in Israel.
We handed them out in Tel Aviv.
No problem in Tel Aviv.
In Jerusalem, when you're handing it to the Orthodox,
[laughs] sometimes your car will get surrounded.
And it's a little more difficult there.
But the thing I like about this tract, "Love the Jewish People"
(by the way, you can read it at www. chick.com),
it gives the history of the Jews, it gives the history of anti-Semitism.
How many people know that Adolph Hitler was a Catholic?
You know, his right-hand men were all Roman Catholics.
Hitler worked closely with the Jesuits.
You can read that in "Secret History of the Jesuits"
by Edmond Paris, available from Chick Publications.
I mean, if you had someone in your congregation
who had killed 12 million people, wouldn't you kick him out?
I mean, the guy still hasn't been excommunicated,
after all these years.
Pope Pius XII never said anything critical against Hitler.
But then it has the Messianic prophecies.
A lot of Jews think the Catholics are Christians!
And this points out that they clearly
are following the wrong god.
This is a wonderful tract, "Love the Jewish People."
We'll be handing it out tonight on Freemont Street Experience.
And you can read it on www.chick.com.
It's a delight to have David Daniels on.
He's written a number of books.
The one we're talking about today is "Should a Christian Be a Mason?"
We like to avoid controversy on this program.
That's why we're having David on again.
God bless you, David.
Thanks for being on with "Jesus and Tim in Las Vegas."
David: It's my pleasure, Tim.
Tim: Why did you write, "Should a Christian Be a Mason?"
One, because people are asking that question.
I once God a phone call here at Chick,
from a gentleman who called.
He was interesting.
He said (I'll clean up the speech), "I'm a Freemason.
And thirty (something) years ago I said The Prayer to receive Jesus.
And I don't have to do another [beep! beep! beep!] thing!"
Tim: Wow.
David: And he kinda hung up.
He was rather upset.
Tim: Wow.
So what did you say to Norman Vincent Peale?
No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
David: He was quite an occultist, actually.
Well, no, I wasn't able to say anything,
because he hung up.
But actually, my great-grandfather
who was a mayor of a local city out here,
he was a Freemason.
In fact, he founded the Chino Freemaons...
he was a co-founder of it.
I have a picture of him with his lambskin,
which is that bib-looking thing that they wear.
Tim: Right, right.
David: But there's a lot of people who have asked the question
about Freemasonry.
And there's a lot of people who said, "Oh, that stuff you say
against Freemasonry is wrong.
It's a Christian organization."
Well then, what is Freemasonry?
And I didn't really want to write the book at first.
And I prayed about it, and the Lord put on my heart,
"Write it."
Figure it out.
So the first thing I had to find out is, What are they?
I mean, if you ask any Mason, they will say,
"Well, we're not a secret society.
We're a society of secrets."
Great.
You haven't told me a whole lot there.
Then you say, "Where did you come from?"
That's interesting.
When I started researching where they came from,
I found out that almost nobody seems to know where they came from.
There are some basic stories, which I tell about in the beginning of the book.
At the beginning they were real stone masons.
And if you're a stone mason, and you make these big churches,
and those big churches have giant arcs on them,
and neat architectural things that, if you don't make them right,
they will fall down and kill people.
So you have to be sure that anybody who comes to your
construction project actually knows his stuff.
So the way they would connect with the other people is
they would learn secret signs and symbols
that they would pass on, that only the people
who learned a certain level could communicate to others
that they also know those architectural techniques,
that had been tested and proved, and were good architects.
So while they were making these churches
and other buildings with that style of architecture,
these masons were really important.
And they knew their stuff as they moved to higher levels,
you know, the three basic levels.
Then they knew they had good workers.
But in the end of the 1550s or so things started to change,
when they put up the last Gothic cathedral,
the last in the style of those giant rocks that they worked on,
those giant stones.
And their guild devolved a bit because there wasn't a lot of work.
And it ended up becoming kind of a ... club.
So people would come in.
And the eventually started letting in rich people,
because rich people have money, and they get to join this club,
and have fun having secret names and little things.
And they started developing it.
But then after that, Masonry started to change.
As members became "Free and Accepted Masons,"
they received people in, that is when
the occultic influence happened.
Part of it was through the Jesuit Order
at the College of Clermont.
There were a number of degrees that were added by the Jesuits.
And there were other things that happened
all through the later 1600s.
Not early.
Some people say King James was a Mason.
No, he wasn't.
1) He couldn't have been.
2) He wasn't into secret societies like that.
But into the later 1600s and into the early 1700s
is when it really got interesting, as far as when they tried to
cement down what their beliefs were.
By 1717 when they got their first Grand Lodge in England,
by that point, they had settled on certain degrees,
and a basic story.
But by the mid-1800s that's where you get to this
Civil War general and hero, named Albert Pike.
And his radical amount of reading and research into mysticism,
Kabbala and occultism and such, made him the perfect guy
to direct Freemasonry from that point on.
And from there on out, Masonry started taking on
a much more occultic kind of framework.
And the proofs of that are in the books that he wrote.
And the most popular, of course, is "Morals and Dogma,"
which used to be given to every Mason.
And then now, it's been shifted to another book called, "A Bridge to Light,"
which is kind of like "Morals and Dogma Lite."
Tim: Hmm.
David: And they go to this book, and they get their
authoritative information about basics of what these different degrees are,
and what they mean.
Tim: Let's say you have an uncle that's a Mason.
And he's also professing to be a Christian.
How would you reach him?
David: The first thing I'd find out is,
does he have his Masonic Bible around?
Then I'd like to show him what his Masonic Bible says,
because his Masonic Bible is a King James Bible.
And the King James Bible has the text right.
They didn't change the text.
They have all sorts of things at the beginning of the book,
that they talk about.
And they only view the Bible as a secondary object.
They call it part of "the furniture of the Lodge."
They don't consider it as authoritative.
They consider it as a wedge,
to make you hold to your oaths.
You swear on your Bible, you're gonna keep your oath.
A Muslim swears on a Qur'an.
He's gonna keep his oath.
That's the idea.
It's furniture only.
But they nonetheless have that Holy Bible,
which is often called "The Holy Bible:
the Great Light in Masonry."
That's one of the terms that they'll use for it.
And then I'll show them some scriptures,
and talk to them about those things.
But I'll also ask them about various rituals and things
that they did in Masonry that are well-known, because
they're right there, in "A Bridge to Light" and in
"Morals and Dogma."
That's where I want to start.
Because, what are these things doing in something that's
supposed to be Christian?
That's where I'd start it.
Tim: Now, do Muslim lodges swear on the Qur'an, to Allah?
David: Yes, and so do certain levels of Masonry, as well.
And when you [become a Shriner] you swear on a Qur'an,
and you swear an oath that has to do with Allah.
Tim: And the Buddhists to Buddha...
David: They can, yes.
In fact, there's a guy named
Joseph Fort Newton, who was a minister,
but he was a high-level Mason.
And in his book, which is included...
some of his writings are actually included
in the Masonic Bible.
He writes: "For Masonry knows, what so many forget,
that religions are many, but Religion is one.
Therefore, it invites to its altar men of all faiths, knowing that,
if they use different names for 'the Nameless One of a hundred names,'
they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all; knowing, also, that
while they read different volumes, they are in fact reading
the same vast Book of the Faith of Man as revealed in the struggle
and sorrow of the race in its quest of God.
So that, great and noble as the Bible is, Masonry sees it as a symbol
of that eternal Book of the Will of God..."
Tim: So what would happen?
Jesus said "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
We are either a missionary or a mission field.
What would happen if a Mason in a Masonic lodge,
a Christian Mason, started sharing his faith
with another individual in that lodge, who didn't know the Lord?
David: Now you are going to have some conflict between
different kinds of Masons.
There are certain ones, who say they allow Jesus
to be talked about like that, as far as worshiping Jesus,
and things like that, but as being the ONLY way,
the ONLY truth, and the ONLY life,
that would be different.
In most Masonic lodges you could not get away with that.
You could not evangelize anyone else.
In Masonry, you would not be permitted to.
Again, some of them say they do.
But they are actually part of a specific kind of lodge that
allows them to talk about Jesus.
But when it really comes down to the Masonic writings,
they say No.
Because they equate all these kinds of books:
The Bible, Old Testament for Hebrews, Old and New for Christians,
The Dhammapadra for the Mahayana Sect of Buddhists,
The Bhagavad Gita for Hindus, The Granth Sahib for Sikhs,
The Qur'an for Muslims, The Zend Avesta for Parsees
and Zoroastrians, They all "allude," they say,
"to a Supreme Deity."
Tim: Wow.
What about the oaths?
Jesus warned, in Matthew 5:34-37,
34 ..."Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem;
for it is the city of the great King."
Let your Yes be Yes, and your Nay, Nay.
What do you say to that?
What do they say to that?
David: You can go all the way back to the 1800s and read
some of the books that were available at that time,
regarding Freemasonry, even before it was as far-off
as it is now.
They talked about the issue of taking oaths, death oaths and such,
when the Lord said, "Let your yea be yea,
and your nay, nay."
That's true.
But also, in your oaths,
it's what you say as well.
--In the oath, pledge, whatever you want to call it.
"I'm in darkness and I want to be brought to the light."
or "This man here is in darkness," and wants to be brought to the light."
The Lord doesn't say that.
He said that He's the light of the world.
"he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness,
but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12) So you have this conflict
that a person who calls himself a Christian
is going to say, "Wait a second.
I have to go back into darkness again, and say 'I'm in darkness'?
I'm not in darkness!
I'm in the light!"
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light,
we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
Tim: Mm hmm. We are in the light.
David: God does not like to be likened-- this is one of the big things
I talk about in the book-- God does not want to be likened
to something else... anything else.
For instance, he says, in Isaiah 40:25, "To whom then will ye liken me,
or shall I be equal?
saith the Holy One."
And in Isaiah 46:5, "To whom will ye liken me,
and make me equal, and compare me,
that we may be like?"
And of course, the answer is, "Nobody."
Okay then, why do they have the sun and the moon;
the triangle and the eye, which is "the sun," and "god";
the eye of gold; the sun triangle and the star;
and the sun and moon as Osiris and Isis things?
Hermes, Mercury, Thoth, the "Mourning of the Sun"?
Now let me jump to that one, the "Mourning of the Sun,"
because that one deals with the book of Ezekiel.
And that's where I'd take a Christian.
You see, a candidate "...enters the Tabernacle
in utter darkness and silence, a reminder of death."
This is a quote.
"He hears the lamentations and sorrow associated
with the deaths of selected deities" Listen:
"Osiris of Egypt, Kama of India, Mithra of Persia, Atys of Phrygia,
and Thammuz of Phoenicia.
Their deaths symbolize the temporary victory
of darkness and evil over the light.
The mythologies associated with all of these deities tell of
both their death and resurrection.
Brethren, enacting ancient drama," again, continuing the quote,
"mourn Osiris, who is representative of the sun,
of light, of life, of good and of beauty.
They reflect upon the way the earth may again be gladdened
by his presence.
Attempts are made to bring life to the dead Osiris
with the grip of the Apprentice, a symbol of science,
and with the grip of the Fellowcraft, a symbol of logic."
So the candidate for the 24th Degree of Masonry
goes into a room decorated with symbols,
designed to make him feel like he entered into an ancient ceremony.
And he hears people weeping for "the deaths of selected deities."
You heard who they were? Osiris, Kama, Mithra, Attis, Tammuz.
All these men are mourning for them, and they're making these sound effects
in the background.
But what did God say in Ezekiel 8:13-14?
"He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again,
and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do."
--in the temple.
"Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house
which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat
women WEEPING FOR TAMMUZ."
It's an abomination to weep for the death of Tammuz!
And yet they're walking into this, in the 24th degree in a ceremony.
How can you be a Christian, and do something that
God calls, very clearly, in Ezekiel 8,
an abomination?
Tim: You know, we're talking with David Daniels,
who's written a book, entitled, "Should a Christian Be a Mason?"
You can pick it up through www.chick.com.
Billy Graham, probably one of the greatest evangelists
who ever lived...
I used to read the news for him on his radio station, WFGW,
WMIT-FM in Black Mountain, North Carolina,
back in 1971.
And yet, I was doing an interview with a fella
who's a former 33rd degree Mason, who'd become a believer,
and written a book about it, and he said
that he was at the ceremony where Billy Graham got
sworn in as a Mason.
Why in the world, if what you're saying is true,
would Billy Graham, one of the greatest evangelists
who ever lived, why would he be a Mason?
David: Well, first of all, is he really a Freemason?
Well, one day I got a book called, "The History of Freemasonry:
Its Legendary Origins," an 1800s book by
Albert Gallatin Mackey.
And it was re-published in 2005.
And it's right here.
It has a 1996 Introduction.
It's a 2010 copy of the book.
I'm holding it in my hands.
And right here, on the jacket cover, approved -- it's a Masonic book--
it says, "George Washington, Benjamin Franklin,
John Hancock, Mark Twain, Henry Ford, Billy Graham,
Arnold Palmer, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Franz Joseph Haydn, Voltaire,
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Tony Blair-- all are Freemasons."
Tim: Why?
Why would Billy Graham be a Freemason?
David: One thing that happened to a lot of people is:
they wanted to get positions in life, they wanted to move up,
they had to be part of a Fraternal Order.
And there's a point where people seem to want
to put away their brains.
They want to separate part of their brain on one side,
and part of their brain on the other side.
And they like their faith, their beliefs, on one side,
and then their "this is just a club," "this is just an order,"
and they excuse it to themselves.
And they put that on the other side.
The problem with that is, they are actually enacting the things
that God says don't enact.
Tim: Mm hmm.
David: They're bowing in front of the things where they should not bow.
They are reading the books that tell them
that the secrets of their own belief, this system, that'll "get them to heaven,"
are based upon the works of Freemasonry.
If we only have a little time, I want to get to the dirty little secret
really fast.
It's in a latter chapter of the book, that I wasn't even going to do.
And that is Baphomet.
Ironically, it is on page 66 that it starts.
And literally, people have said, and Masons have said continually,
"Baphomet is just a red herring."
They say that there's this guy, this hoaxster guy in the 1800s,
and he admitted that it was a lie at the end, and came back.
It had nothing to do with that guy, Leo Taxil.
It has to do with another guy, named Eliphas Levi.
For three years I thought, "There's got to be a connection
between Masonry and Eliphas Levi."
Well, the drawing of Baphomet that you see
is by Eliphas Levi.
--That's not his real name, Eliphas Levi Zahed.
We can go into that later.-- But the bottom line
this guy who brought about this drawing of the Baphomet
also wrote a whole lot of occultic books.
And because I was collecting stuff on Pike,
I found one of the books in (Pike's) library.
It's in the listing.
I checked it out.
It's in French.
So that means that the stuff that Pike quotes from him,
he is translating himself from French to English,
in his Masonic book.
And what he did, was quote a section,
that if you read the whole part, that is in this book, my book,
you will see that Baphomet is "Jesus Christ,"
the "Holy Ghost," and Satan ["the Devil"].
Tim: Hmm, wow. Wow.
Well, the book is called, "Should a Christian Be a Mason?"
by David Daniels.
You need to pick it up.
I loved Adrian Rogers.
I used to watch him every Sunday.
I met him, when we went down to see his church there in Memphis.
And I was so impressed with him.
He spent several minutes talking with us.
But when I talked to him, when we were doing
Mornings with Tim and Al on KBRT in Los Angeles,
or maybe it was St. Louis, I brought up Masonry,
and you could clearly tell that he didn't want to talk about it.
Why won't more pastors address this issue?
David: Because people who donate to their churches
and have lots of money are Freemasons.
It's just the way it is.
Jack Chick found that.
In fact, he went to his Baptist church one day,
and found that after he'd written
one of his tracts, that all the Masons
had taken their Masonic rings off their fingers.
Tim: Wow.
David: Every time a person came up to be saved,
the pastor then showed him to that Mason.
And that Mason turned the fire away
from that brand-new convert, and turned them into Masons.
Tim: Wow.
Oh, that's so sad.
So sad.
You need to get this, folks.
"Should a Christian Be a Mason," by David Daniels.
You can get it through www.chick.com.
David, we only have a couple of minutes left.
What are some other books, and comic books
that are available right now through Chick Publications
tracts that you recommend?
David: We have a whole selection, of course.
To see our entire comic series, go to www.chick.com
on your phone, on your computer, or whatever.
You can see all the books that we have.
I've written a whole bunch on the King James Bible
and how we can trust it.
We have a number of books on Masonry in our selection.
And the ones that we have, I've gotten to go through and check the data.
The data's good.
We only sell the ones we really approve of, and I got to check them.
We have lots of comics that reach teenagers-- that's what's good.
Look at the Crusaders series for teenagers.
And we just have a whole selection of tracts.
All of them are online.
The tracts are all online.
You can look them up and see them for yourself.
Tim: And listen, friends, if you have teenagers around the house,
get some of these comic books.
And leave them around the house.
When the kids come in with their friends, They'll be picking them up and reading them.
And Chick tracts get read.
You've got a wonderful DVD, called The Light of This World?
David: The Light of the World.
Tim: Briefly tell us about that.
30 seconds.
David: It's a 78-minute Chick tract, with beautiful art by artist Fred Carter
and a couple of others, with beautiful music and narration
that takes you through the gospel.
And the first time it was shown in Mexico 1,200 Mexican brothers and sisters
were added to the faith.
Tim: My sister and I are going to go to a couple of Mexican cities.
And I tell you, I love handing out "Mary's Kids" in Mexico, because
people see Mary, and then they see these
children around her, they assume it's their kids.
They don't think it's Jesus' brothers and sisters.
The Bible says that Mary was a virgin "UNTIL" Jesus was born, Matthew 1:25.
But boy, they cross themselves with that cover.
And I tell you, they read it.
And very few come up and complain.
I did have one man in Mexico City come up to me.
He said, "I'm a Catholic, not a Christian!"
And I thought, "Well, that's why I'm there," you know.
But...
David Daniels.
Check it out, chick.com.
Dear friend, Chick Publications, wonderful saints.
They pray for us while we're out
on Fremont Street Experience, and on the bridges here.
And we're gonna meet the fruits of our labor.
And we're gonna meet Jack Chick one of these days.
There's probably a longer line to meet Jack Chick in heaven
than there is for the apostle Paul, with the number of tracts that went out.
But David Daniels, thank you so much
for being with us today.
God bless you, Brother.
David: God bless you.
Have a great day!
Tim: You too, bye bye.
Thank you so much, my friends.
Be praying for my sister and I, as we head to Mexico for a couple,
well, for about five days or so.
Pray for the tracts getting out, and for the folks who'll be sitting in for me.
God bless you!
Live for the Lord!
Bring 'em all "A"s!
Bye bye.
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