HARI SREENIVASAN: Good evening.
I'm Hari Sreenivasan.
Judy Woodruff is away.
On the "NewsHour" tonight:
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: What about the alt-left that came charging
at the -- as you say, the alt-right?
Do they have any semblance of guilt?
HARI SREENIVASAN: President Trump doubles down on his blame of both neo-Nazi groups
and the protesters that confronted them for the violence in Charlottesville last weekend,
and he pushes back on the movement to remove Confederate statues that sparked the event.
DONALD TRUMP: Is it George Washington next week?
And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?
HARI SREENIVASAN: Also ahead: As North Korean leader Kim Jong-un seems to hold off on aggressive
military action against the U.S., what are the clues that can be found in the regime's
propaganda?
Plus: preschools without walls.
A new movement is breaking down the barriers of the classroom and letting kids learn in
the great outdoors.
JENN KIRTS, Chippewa Nature Center: In a classroom, a lot of the things that you have are static
and were designed to be played with in one particular way.
The natural environment changes every single day.
HARI SREENIVASAN: All that and more on tonight's "PBS NewsHour."
(BREAK)
HARI SREENIVASAN: Yesterday we reported on President Trump's updated statement criticizing
violent neo-Nazi and white nationalist groups for the violence over the weekend in Charlottesville.
That was yesterday.
Today, in an impromptu news conference originally about an executive order on infrastructure,
Trump defended his statements from over the weekend and went even further.
For more on all this, I'm joined by the "NewsHour"'s John Yang.
John, at first, it was about infrastructure.
There were visual aids.
There were flowcharts.
And then:
JOHN YANG: It was a remarkable performance, Hari.
Reporters were initially told that the president wouldn't take questions.
It was just going to be a statement.
But he's described as fuming at the press and the coverage of his reaction to Charlottesville,
and this afternoon he came out swinging, first on CEOs quitting White House advisory panels.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Take a look at where their product is made.
It is made outside of our country.
We want products made in the country.
Now, I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they're leaving out of embarrassment,
because they make their products outside.
And I have been lecturing them, including the gentleman that you are referring to, about
you have to bring it back to this country.
HARI SREENIVASAN: He was referring to the Merck CEO, but there were many other CEOs.
JOHN YANG: There were three CEOs altogether and also the head of another panel, CEOs of
Intel, of Under Armour, and then the head of a manufacturing alliance.
And then, just a few moments ago, Richard Trumka, the president of the AFL-CIO, announced
that he's quitting.
He said that Mr. Trump's today, in his words, repudiate his forced remarks yesterday.
HARI SREENIVASAN: He doubled down.
This was kind of the person that almost was forced, as Richard Trumka says.
You could see how uncomfortable he was in front of the teleprompter yesterday.
But, today, he was incredibly confident.
He was sure of himself.
And this is what he thinks.
JOHN YANG: Yesterday, we are told that especially Chief of Staff John Kelly pressed for what
happened yesterday.
They wanted to get this behind them, so they could move on to their agenda in September,
but the president brought it right back today, back to square one.
HARI SREENIVASAN: He was also defending -- he took sort of several moments and opportunities
to defend the alt-right in not so many words, by really pointing out there were other good
and decent people there, and even how he perceived the protests on Friday night, where those
men were carrying torches.
JOHN YANG: And he sort of also defended why it took him more than 48 hours to specifically
condemn white supremacists, neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan.
DONALD TRUMP: I didn't wait long.
I didn't wait long.
I didn't wait long.
I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick
statement.
The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement, but you don't
make statements that direct unless you know the fact.
And it takes a little while to get the facts.
You still don't know the facts.
And it is a very, very important process to me.
It is a very important statement.
So I don't want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political
statement.
I want to know the facts.
HARI SREENIVASAN: This is not the same person that tweets within minutes.
When he's angry about something, he takes to Twitter very quickly.
He makes statements sometimes too quickly.
And here he is sort of saying the opposite, that he's deliberate, that he waits for facts
and information.
JOHN YANG: Critics pointed out, have already been pointing out that this is the same man
who went to Twitter to criticize, accused President Obama of wiretapping him in Trump
Tower without any evidence, and make a number over claims that -- without any evidence.
HARI SREENIVASAN: And even in the remarks about the Merck CEO who left the council,
it was an incredibly short amount of time, as soon as he left the council, that he sort
of took Merck through the ringer.
JOHN YANG: He went -- yesterday, after Kevin Frazier resigned from the council, he took
to Twitter and said, great.
Now we have more time to secure these ripoff high drug prices, even though, at Merck, Frazier
has led the way in sort of being transparent about drug costs.
And he also accused him today of manufacturing drugs overseas.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Which makes you wonder, why did you have him on, on the commission
in the first place, right, if you thought these things about him?
And there's also this equivalency that he's making throughout this defense of what happened
in Charlottesville.
JOHN YANG: He went back to the original statement on Saturday, that this was something -- he
criticized what he called the alt-left.
DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me.
What about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right?
Do they have any semblance of guilt?
(CROSSTALK)
DONALD TRUMP: Let me ask you this.
What about the fact they came charging -- that they came charging with clubs in their hands
swinging clubs?
Do they have any problem?
I think they do.
I am not putting anybody on a moral plane.
What I'm saying is this.
You had a group on one side and a group on the other, and they came at each other with
clubs and it was vicious and horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch.
I think there's blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it, and you don't have
any doubt about it either.
It's because, really, what -- when you see the statement that was constructed yesterday,
and when you see how forthright he is, this is what he believes, and Saturday is what
he believed.
JOHN YANG: People -- some at the White House have been telling me that, talking about the
Saturday statement, that he saw this as an issue of law and order, that he saw unrest,
he saw civil unrest and violence.
He didn't really distinguish which side.
He saw this more as an issue of law and order, not ideology.
HARI SREENIVASAN: And, you know, there was also kind of a fallacy of the slippery slope
here with George Washington.
JOHN YANG: That's right.
He was asked about this whole controversy of removing Confederate memorials like the
Robert E. Lee statue that sparked Saturday's violence in Charlottesville.
Mr. Trump, in response, brought up the founding fathers who were slave owners.
DONALD TRUMP: George Washington was a slave owner.
Was George Washington a slave owner?
So will George Washington now lose his status?
Are we going to take down -- excuse me.
Are we going to take down -- are we going to take down statues to George Washington?
How about Thomas Jefferson?
What do you think of Thomas Jefferson?
You like him?
OK, good.
Are we going to take down his statue?
Because he was a major slave owner.
Now, are we going to take down his statue?
So, you know what?
It's fine.
HARI SREENIVASAN: There has already been reaction.
JOHN YANG: There has been reaction.
House Speaker Paul Ryan tweeted just a little bit ago, saying that -- I have lost it on
my phone here, but that there can be no moral ambiguity.
He was -- also won praise.
David Duke, former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, tweeted: "Thank you, President
Trump, for your honesty and courage to tell the truth about Charlottesville and condemn
the leftist terrorists in Black Lives Matter and Antifa, anti-fascists."
HARI SREENIVASAN: So, these are the people that are happy with the president and his
remarks today?
JOHN YANG: They -- our colleague P.J. Tobia talked to Matthew Heimbach, who is the head
of the Traditionalist Worker Party, described him as being ecstatic on the phone when he
spoke to him.
He says that what the president called the alt-left: "These were actual anarchists, radical
leftists, not your daddy's Democrats.
And they talk about violence and commit violence and terror acts on a daily basis."
HARI SREENIVASAN: The Traditional Worker Party.
All right, there was also a moment with John McCain and how he sort of referenced him as
somebody that was questioning him about a critique by John McCain and kind of threw
him under the bus at that moment.
And then there was this -- all I can say is this sort of bizarre promo for a winery that
Trump owns in Charlottesville.
Anyway, it's fascinating insight into the president.
John Yang, thanks so much.
JOHN YANG: Thank you.
HARI SREENIVASAN: We have only scratched the surface of the president's press conference.
You can watch the whole event on our Web site, PBS.org/NewsHour.
All of today's comments surrounding the events in Charlottesville follow a protest last night
in neighboring North Carolina.
Demonstrators in Durham tore down a Confederate statue outside a courthouse.
They attached a rope and overturned the bronze monument, before kicking it and cheering.
The Durham County sheriff said protesters will face felony charges.
In the day's other news: The death toll from yesterday's devastating mudslide in Sierra
Leone has surged to more than 300.
And the Red Cross estimates another 600 people are still missing.
Rescue crews battled still fast-moving waters, as they searched homes ravaged by the floods.
Survivors recounted the horror of the mudslides in the capital, Freetown.
ALFRED JOHNNY, Survivor (through translator): There was a big sound and the ground was trembling
and stones started falling.
When I came out, a stone nearly killed me, so I ran away.
When I looked back, all the buildings were covered with mud.
Nobody survived from that part of the hill.
HARI SREENIVASAN: If you want to hear more about the rescue and recovery efforts in Sierra
Leone, we spoke with Idalia Amaya of Catholic Relief Services.
You can find that interview on our Facebook page.
And, separately, monsoon-fueled rains across Southeast Asia have now killed more than 200
people in Nepal, Bangladesh, and India.
The president of Argentina today became the latest Latin American leader to speak against
the prospect of U.S. military action in Venezuela.
President Mauricio Macri said force is not the way to go.
Colombia's president also said military force shouldn't be considered.
Macri spoke during a visit by Vice President Mike Pence, who once again declined to rule
out military action.
Pence did say he's confident a -- quote -- "peaceable solution can be achieved."
The president of Iran has issued a new threat about his country's nuclear program.
President Trump says Iran has violated the spirit of its 2015 nuclear deal with world
powers, a pact he has repeatedly wanted to scuttle.
But speaking to lawmakers in Tehran, President Hassan Rouhani said Iran's nuclear activities
could be advanced quickly if the U.S. continues its -- quote -- "threats and sanctions."
HASSAN ROUHANI, Iranian President (through translator): If the U.S. administration is
willing to repeat previous experiences, Iran will certainly, within a short period, not
short on a scale of weeks or months, but short on a scale of hours and days, will return
to a much more advanced position than when the talks started.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Earlier this week, Iran's Parliament voted to increase spending on the
country's ballistic missile program and foreign operations of its Revolutionary Guard.
Back in this country, voters went to the polls today in Alabama's Senate Republican primary.
It's a race to fill the seat previously held by Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
Luther Strange, who was appointed to the seat, is up against Congressman Mo Brooks and former
state Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore.
The contest could go to a runoff next month between the top two finishers.
President Trump has thrown his weight behind Strange.
The federal government is facing pushback on its attempt to get information about visitors
to a Web site that helped organize protests at President Trump's inauguration.
The site's provider, DreamHost, says it is challenging a request for data on some 1.3
million visitors to the page.
A hearing on the matter is scheduled for Friday in Washington.
President Trump's threat to stop subsidies for insurers could add $194 billion dollars
to federal deficits over a decade.
That's according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
It says ending insurance subsidies would force an increase in federal payments directly to
individuals.
The president has said cutting the payments, which help cover costs for people with lower
incomes, would force lawmakers to negotiate on health care reform.
And on Wall Street today, the Dow Jones industrial average gained five points to close at 21998.
The Nasdaq fell seven points, and the S&P 500 dropped a point.
Still to come on the "NewsHour": what the Charlottesville clash says about race relations
in the U.S.; reading between the lines, an analysis of North Korean statements that might
signal Kim Jong-un is willing to talk; the growing trend of outdoor preschools; and much
more.
We return now to the fallout from the violent events in Charlottesville and the rise of
racial tensions that came to a head there.
I'm joined now by Mark Potok, a former senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Carol Anderson, she's chair of African-American studies at Emory University and author of
"White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide."
And Leonard Pitts Jr., he's a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist with The Miami Herald.
Carol, I want to start with you.
I wanted to start on the events of Friday night, but the comments of the president today
put that in a different dimension.
The images that you saw on Friday night of people walking with torches on the UVA campus
vs. the one perhaps the president saw seem to be a different picture.
What came to your mind?
CAROL ANDERSON, Emory University: What came to my mind when I saw the torches and the
marching was, it reminded me so much of, like, Klan marches in the '20s.
It reminded me of the marches that happened in Montgomery as the Klan was trying to force
African-Americans to get back on those Jim Crow buses, to get back in their place.
It was a signal of white power and of trying to create black fear.
As I thought about it, it was as well a way of seeing how this toxin of racism and white
supremacy has reemerged in a very virulent form in American society.
And it's been aided and abetted by the kind of politics of dog whistles that have now
led to the rise of Donald Trump.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Leonard Pitts Jr., it seems today, when the president was asked about
those events, what he saw was peaceful protests on Friday night, even though there were some
violent incidents that were caught on tape as well.
His world view, whatever it's shaped by, sees something very different than we do.
LEONARD PITTS JR., Columnist, The Miami Herald: Well, I think it's hardly surprising that
someone who is not part of a group who has a collective memory of Klan marches and of
people marching with torches with a design to inflict political and actual violence on
you, I think it's no surprise that someone who doesn't have that collective memory would
see that in a completely different way.
We have a history in this country, frankly, of seeing white people, and, frankly, white
violence and white threats of violence as more benign than we do people of color.
So, in that regard, there's nothing really surprising about him seeing things that way.
He's just -- he's being who he is and where he's from.
And, frankly, he lacks the imagination to possibly see or even to wonder how these things
might be perceived by those who have a memory of having been, you know, threatened by this.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Mark Potok, I remember seeing video of an elderly Klansman several years
ago saying, this is going to be the last generation of people who actually are like me.
And he was lamenting it, but the pictures that we saw on Friday night, these were young
men in polo shirts, with cropped hair.
MARK POTOK, Southern Poverty Law Center: Yes.
I think that's absolutely true.
I think that this is a new generation of racists who, as Carol and Leonard both have suggested,
were in large part created by Donald Trump and others like Donald Trump, people who are
in the public eye, who have been normalizing and mainstreaming the ideas of white nationalism
in a way that really is unprecedented going back some 50 years in terms of coming from
people in high political office and so on.
It really has been something to behold.
And, you know, today when Trump decided that -- once again doubled down on the idea that
the left was just as bad as the right, I just see that as absolutely, 100 percent not credible.
I mean, the man has no authority, no credibility whatsoever.
It was simply Trump once again pivoting back to the Klansmen, the neo-Nazis, the white
nationalists and others who support him.
He's absolutely loathe to alienate them.
We have seen that so much through his candidacy and through his presidency, his absolutely
false claims, for instance, that he didn't know who David Duke was and therefore couldn't
condemn him.
So, it's -- as Carol said, it's the dog whistle game all over again, although it is barely
veiled.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Carol Anderson, one of the things that he did today was use the fallacy
of the slippery slope to say, well, today, it's the Confederate monuments.
Tomorrow, why not George Washington, why not Thomas Jefferson, who were slave owners themselves?
CAROL ANDERSON: I don't even know how to really respond to that, except to say his inability
to understand the difference between people who fought to create the United States of
America and people who fought to destroy the United States of America, so that they could
hold, rape, breed, and sell human beings, shows his inability to think, his inability
to have any kind of a sense of American history.
And it shows again that kind of dog whistling, so that what you do is you create a false
narrative, which is what he's doing to create fear that, what this left is doing, this so-called
left that he's talking about, is trying to destroy America, when, in fact, what you're
seeing are the people who are out protesting against the Nazis, against the Klan, they
are fighting for America, they are fighting for the recognition of our humanity, all of
our humanity.
That is so fundamentally different, and you would think that the president of the United
States would be able to understand that.
But Donald Trump doesn't.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Leonard Pitts, this weekend, you wrote in a column that part of this is
because we choose to lie to ourselves about the racial divide that exists in the country.
What did you mean?
LEONARD PITTS JR.: What I meant is that a lot of my white fellow countrymen have chosen
a path of intellectual dishonesty, I guess would be the best way to put it, to deal with
what's going on with regard to race right now.
And I think reason they do that is because it's a lot easier on them emotionally and
intellectually, frankly, than to actually confront what's actually going on in the country
these days and what's going on with African-Americans.
So, instead of dealing with that, if you want the think of yourself as a good person, you
do not want to therefore want to think of yourself as part of some sort of racist system,
because, then, if you're a good person, you're obligated to do something about it and to
stand up.
So, the alternative to doing that is to say, well, it's all these people's imaginations
or it's -- the alternative is to adopt these really spurious claims.
One of my favorite is -- and Donald Trump sort of, I think, leads toward this -- one
of my favorite is, well, there's racism on both sides, which is one of the -- which is
hugely false, and for obvious reasons.
When people who are white talk about the -- quote, unquote -- "racism" they experience at the
hands of black people, they're talking about somebody called me a bad racial name.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Yes.
LEONARD PITTS JR.: When I talk about the racism that I fear from white people in this society,
I'm talking about the fear that one of my sons will be shot and killed by police and
then thing-afied and thug-afied on cable news.
When they talk about racism, they're talking about something that affects the quality of
their day.
When we as African-Americans talk about racism, we're talking about something that affects
the quality of our lives.
And this has been said very clearly for many years, and yet, for whatever -- and this and
other things.
But, for whatever reason, too many of our white fellow countrymen have -- profess to
have difficulty in understanding this.
This is what I mean when I say intellectual dishonesty.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Mark Potok, you spent decades tracking this.
Is this actually increasing, or is our perception of it increasing because everything is so
much more visible these days?
MARK POTOK: No, I think it is increasing.
I think there are many things going on in the world today that are helping to foment
this movement.
Many of them, I have mentioned already, cable TV, radio talk show hosts, people like Donald
Trump and some of the really loathsome characters within his administration.
But, beyond that, I think this country, like much of Western Europe, has gone through enormous
changes.
The most obvious is demographic change, the idea that whites will be a minority by about
2050 -- 2043, pardon me, according to the Census Bureau, but also huge economic changes
that are hurting people, very many of them white, who in the past were fairly privileged,
had very good factory jobs, made a lot of money, and are now in trouble, certainly not
in as much trouble as black people or other minorities, but are feeling the hurt.
And also cultural changes.
I think the most obvious example of that is the idea of same-sex marriage, which seemed
unimaginable a mere 15 or 20 years ago, and today is the law of the land in all 50 states.
So, I think something real is happening out there.
There are huge changes occurring.
Obviously, quite a few white people out there feel that somehow the country their white
forefathers created for their white offspring is not the place that they grew up in anymore.
So, you know, I think you add to that very volatile mix, that very real mix of what's
happening in the world a character like Donald Trump, who I think has done just enormous
damage to the country in terms of mainstreaming and normalizing these ideas, these very violent
ideas, and you find yourself, as we find ourselves today, in a very scary and dangerous situation.
HARI SREENIVASAN: All right.
Mark Potok, Carol Anderson, Leonard Pitts Jr., thank you all.
LEONARD PITTS JR.: Thank you.
MARK POTOK: Thank you.
CAROL ANDERSON: Thank you.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Weeks of fiery rhetoric and escalating threats over North Korea are
showing signs of cooling, at least for the day.
In Washington, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said the U.S. is interested in dialogue.
And, in Pyongyang, the tone of Kim Jong-un's messages seem to maintain the same belligerent
tone, but reading between the lines, analysts believe his latest statements may also be
trying to de-escalate tensions with the U.S.
Special correspondent Nick Schifrin tries to decode North Korea's propaganda.
NICK SCHIFRIN: In his military's strategic forces' H.Q., a commander in chief studies
his options.
His generals reveal a plan to test-fire missiles near the enemy's strategically important base.
The target is on the wall, the U.S.' Andersen Air Force Base in Guam.
The narrator promises -- quote -- "enveloping fire."
WOMAN (through translator): U.S. imperialists put the noose around their necks due to their
reckless military confrontations.
NICK SCHIFRIN: That sounds ominous, but the sentence continues:
WOMAN (through translator): He added, he would keep an eye on the foolish and stupid conduct
of the Americans.
ROBERT CARLIN, Former CIA and State Department Intelligence Analyst: The signal that he's
dialing things back again.
NICK SCHIFRIN: For 33 years, Robert Carlin studied North Korea for the U.S. government.
He visited the country more than 25 times, and he says Kim might be signaling he wants
a diplomatic path.
ROBERT CARLIN: You can get distracted by language which really isn't important, and read right
over what is significant, and how it's supposed to click together.
Are we in a period like that now?
I hope so.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Often, the West focuses on North Korea's hyperbolic propaganda.
Videos show North Korea preparing for war, targeting the White House and being able to
destroy the Capitol.
Propaganda aimed at children depict kids destroying a large-nosed U.S. soldier.
Paintings in a Pyongyang museum depict a U.S. soldier pulling out a North Korean woman's
tooth.
Demonizing the U.S. helps an authoritarian regime rally its population.
It might those seem those rallies are preparations for conflict.
But on the streets of Pyongyang, there is no crisis.
So, despite all the rhetoric, North Korea seems not to want war.
ROBERT CARLIN: They didn't go on alert.
They didn't mobilize the population.
There's a difference between policy and propaganda.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Take the July 4 launch.
Kim celebrated North Korea's first ever launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile.
And in a statement, he said North Korea would put -- quote -- "neither its nukes nor its
rockets on the table for negotiations, unless hostile U.S. policy was terminated."
ROBERT CARLIN: If you read that, it reads like a negative.
But it's not a negative.
It's actually -- if you know the history of this stuff, it's actually a positive, because
it's the first time that Kim has publicly said, oh, incidentally, there is a possibility
that these things would go on the table.
NICK SCHIFRIN: That offer of negotiating its rockets and nuclear program has been repeated
multiple times since.
And it's exactly that offer that some North Korea watchers consider a ruse.
SUNG-YOON LEE, Tufts University: The latest de-escalation, illusory as it may be, is a
prelude to a provocation.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Sung-Yoon Lee is an assistant professor at Tufts University.
He says North Korea acts over the top, so when it seems to behave, it receives concessions.
SUNG-YOON LEE: North Korea, in acting crazy, or funny, even, bizarre, I think, achieves
its strategic goal of getting the U.S. to take North Korea lightly, go back to damage
control diplomacy, for the sake of getting North Korea out of the headlines for a few
months.
And all along, North Korea is able to advance its nuclear and missile capabilities.
NICK SCHIFRIN: And all along, as the U.S. has been focusing on the military aspects,
Kim has advanced North Korea's economy.
And that has helped solidify his hold on power.
ROBERT CARLIN: Because, if you look at the policies that he has followed since he came
in, over the last six years, they are not erratic, they are not crazy, and they are
producing results.
NICK SCHIFRIN: On organized and controlled trips, the government shows off prosperous
businesses like catfish farms.
Kim Jong-un has liberalized the economy, so owners of companies like this one can control
their own profits.
And the government also showed off a new luxury shopping and housing district.
North Koreans gawked at the Pyongyang's tallest buildings.
A government official said this street was more powerful than 100 nuclear warheads.
ROBERT CARLIN: I hadn't been there previously for about seven years.
I was flabbergasted at the change in Pyongyang, the growth, the vitality of the city.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Kim's been called crazy.
He is ruthless, but long-term North Korea watchers see an economy that's improved and
messaging, even if exaggerated, that's nuanced, which means, despite what it may seem, there
is method to North Korea's madness.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Nick Schifrin.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Stay with us.
Coming up on the "NewsHour": could Taylor Swift's court victory hold out hope for victims
of sexual assault?; and from the "NewsHour" Bookshelf, a former FBI counterterrorism agent
on the changing shape of terror.
But first: A movement to get kids out of classrooms with walls and into the great outdoors is
picking up steam.
Across the U.S., nature preschools are seeing a surge.
Jeffrey Brown traveled to Midland, Michigan, to find out why for our weekly education segment,
Making the Grade.
STUDENT: There's a spider in my net.
JEFFREY BROWN: Hunting for bugs, jumping off logs, dipping for frogs, it's what kids do,
right?
In fact, no, many don't, certainly not as part of their education.
But in the age of testing, screens, and, some would say, excessively coddled children, a
new movement of nature preschools is growing and pushing kids outdoors.
Jenn Kirts, a biologist by training, oversees educational programs at the nonprofit Chippewa
Nature Center in Midland, Michigan, 1,200 acres of woodlands, wetlands, ponds and meadows.
JENN KIRTS, Chippewa Nature Center: In a classroom, a lot of the things that you have are static
and were designed to be played with in one particular way.
The natural environment changes every single day.
The weather changes, the humidity.
There's scat left behind.
There's new footprints.
There's leaves that are chewed today that weren't chewed yesterday.
And so there's just a natural curiosity that happens there.
And it's something that people have spent time in for generations and generations.
All of our existence, kids have grown up outdoors.
That has changed in these current generations.
JEFFREY BROWN: Students here spend most of the day outdoors.
Some nature preschools don't even have indoor classrooms.
The alphabet and language skills are emphasized, while the lab for other skills is all around.
JENN KIRTS: When we're dipping at a pond and we're discovering what's there, that's life
science right there.
And when we're measuring trees, and kids are then going around and designing things to
do those measurements and to figure that out, that is engineering and problem-solving and
math.
JEFFREY BROWN: And the idea is catching on.
Nature preschools are seeing a surge in the U.S. -- 10 years ago, there were barely 20.
Today, by one count, the number has grown to nearly 250.
STUDENT: A tadpole is swimming away.
JEFFREY BROWN: These 3- and 4-year-olds learned about the life cycle of a frog, and then went
to the pond to catch some.
JESSICA DANKERT, Chippewa Nature Center: To see a child touch a frog that looks slimy
and ewy and icky for them, and they're OK and their hands and shaking, and we gently
put them in there for them, and their face just glows.
WOMAN: What do we not want to touch?
STUDENTS: Poison ivy.
WOMAN: Poison ivy.
JEFFREY BROWN: During a weeklong summer camp, which closely mirrors the preschool program,
teacher Kendall Cunningham led her charges to a meadow to catch insects and learn about
the habitat.
KENDALL CUNNINGHAM, Chippewa Nature Center: A lot of the times, they say they don't like
the insects, they don't want to touch them, but they want to watch.
Watching it different than handling it.
JEFFREY BROWN: Madison Powell is the director of the Chippewa Nature Preschool, with 140
students during the school year and a growing wait list.
MADISON POWELL, Director, Chippewa Nature Center: Children are so very scheduled, they're
not allowed to be bored anymore, they're not allowed to play with things that are dangerous
or that are messy.
We want them to have those opportunities.
We ask parents to look back at their childhood.
What are some of the things you remember?
Was it climbing a tree?
Was it being covered in mud, stomping in puddles?
And a lot of times, it is.
And if it's not their parents, it's their grandparents, or some sort of relative who
said, I grew up that way.
I came home and the streetlights came on, that sort of thing.
JEFFREY BROWN: Right.
MADISON POWELL: And we're living in a society that just doesn't allow children to make many
decisions for themselves.
JEFFREY BROWN: Here, they're willing to push boundaries.
We watched as one boy tried to tear down what he thought was a dead tree.
First, he shook it, to no avail, then tied a rope around the sapling's trunk to bring
it down.
Finally, he and a classmate managed to snap the tree, and now it really was a dead tree.
KENDALL CUNNINGHAM: They're going to learn something from the whole experience.
We can sacrifice a tree.
JEFFREY BROWN: Teacher Kendall Cunningham explained:
KENDALL CUNNINGHAM: If it would have gotten to a point that it didn't look like it was
going to be a safe activity anymore, then I probably would have intervened and said,
OK, now it's time to stop.
We can't do this anymore.
JEFFREY BROWN: And the lesson wasn't over.
Cunningham gave the boys some tools for learning, small saws, in fact, used under her watchful
eyes.
Preschool director Madison Powell:
MADISON POWELL: We just make sure that we're going with the comfort level of the teachers
and the kids.
Our teachers have maybe a higher tolerance for that, because we do see such value in
risky play and what that does for their decision-making.
We make sure that they're within reach.
They're not going to fall from great heights, according to us.
Great heights for them might be the top of this bench.
JEFFREY BROWN: A certain level of risk is allowed.
MADISON POWELL: It sure is, and it's healthy.
JEFFREY BROWN: Also considered healthy, going outside in most types of weather.
We visited on a very hot day, but even on cold winter days in Michigan the kids bundle
up and head out.
Parents we talked with hear no complaints.
BECKY BENSALL, Parent: They would love to be outside all the time.
Just maybe the snow suits that they wear are phenomenal.
It keeps them so warm that they don't even know it's cold.
Doesn't even bother them.
They love it.
WOMAN: They would live outside if I let them live outside.
And they're extremely curious.
They're always asking me questions, whether we're playing in the backyard, we're out here
for hikes, or anywhere outside.
JEFFREY BROWN: But will these nature kids be academically prepared for kindergarten?
That's the subject of study right now by a Michigan State University research team, which
followed the children around last year, rain or shine, gathering data with GoPro cameras
and conducting interviews to test their skills.
Lori Skibbe, one of the lead investigators, told us the early results.
LORI SKIBBE, Michigan State University: What we found is that children at the, here at
the nature-based center did just as well on our literacy measures, our language measures,
our science measures and some of our executive function measures as children in the more
traditional setting.
So, they learned just as much.
JEFFREY BROWN: Does that surprise you so far?
LORI SKIBBE: At how similar they are, yes, that surprised me.
The rates of learning were fairly equivalent across all of our schools, were pretty much
the same.
JEFFREY BROWN: And can you draw any preliminary conclusions from that?
LORI SKIBBE: I think you can say that a nature-based setting can prepare you for kindergarten,
as well as a traditional setting, if it's done well.
JEFFREY BROWN: That study continues, for now, along with the hunt for the next insect.
For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Chippewa Nature Center in Midland,
Michigan.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Yesterday, a jury in Denver, Colorado, awarded Taylor Swift one dollar
in damages in a lawsuit over a groping allegation.
Lisa Desjardins is here to explain -- Lisa.
LISA DESJARDINS: Right.
Hari, that one dollar was the amount that Taylor Swift requested.
It was her countersuit, after a radio host sued the singer for defamation when she spoke
publicly about the incident.
He claimed that she cost him his job, but the court sided with Swift.
The verdict came after four days of testimony, with a photo of the incident as the only piece
of physical evidence.
It shows former radio station host David Mueller posing with 27-year-old Swift before a Denver
concert four years ago.
His hand appears behind Swift just below her waist.
Swift says Mueller grabbed her bare bottom and didn't let go when she lurched away.
Mueller said he may have touched her ribcage, but nothing else, but the jury didn't believe
him.
Swift's case and experience is not new.
One in five college-age women in the United States say they have experienced some form
of sexual assault.
That's according to a Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation poll.
But Swift's stature in the music industry and society gives her a position and podium
most women who've been sexually assaulted don't have.
And with that comes hundreds of young fans following the case's proceedings outside the
courtroom, and millions more on social media.
GIRL: I was really happy because Taylor Swift is one of my role models.
And when she stood up, like, by being in that courtroom, she's standing up for women all
around the world.
LISA DESJARDINS: Swift's attorney says he hopes the case sets an example for young girls
and boys.
DOUGLAS BALDRIDGE, Attorney for Taylor Swift: Not just a win, but something that can make
a difference for my kids, your kids, all of us, my son, my daughters, where the lines
are, what's right, what's wrong.
LISA DESJARDINS: After being awarded the one dollar payment Swift requested in damages,
she put out the following statement, saying: "I acknowledge the privilege that I benefit
from in life, in society and in my ability to shoulder the enormous cost of defending
myself in a trial like this."
Swift's victory comes in a year of mixed results for women pursuing sexual assault cases.
Such cases have ousted FOX News host Bill O'Reilly and founder Roger Ailes, while the
singer known as Kesha has repeatedly continually rejected repeatedly lost her attempts to end
her contract with a former producer whom she says sexually assaulted her.
With an estimated two out of three of all sexual assault cases still going unreported,
Swift says she hopes to give a voice to those who feel silenced by sexual assault, and she
plans to donate to groups that help victims.
And I'm now joined by Maya Raghu, senior counsel at the National Women's Law Center, where
she focuses on women's issues in the workplace, including sexual harassment.
And Judy Vredenburgh, she is the president and CEO of Girls, Inc., an advocacy group
that works to equip girls to navigate gender, economic and social barriers in life.
She joins us from New York.
Ladies, thanks to both of you for joining us tonight.
Maya, I want the start with you.
And let's talk about our justice system.
This was a victory for Swift today, but what do we know about any shift in judges and juries
in how they look at most victims or most people who bring claims of sexual assault in court?
MAYA RAGHU, Senior Counsel, National Women's Law Center: Well, many people think that survivors
of sexual harassment or sexual assault lie or make false allegations.
So it makes it very difficult for victims to come forward and talk about what happened
to them.
There's a lot of fear, fear for their safety and fear for consequences and retaliation
in the workplace or at school.
But the truth is that it's very difficult to come forward and report sexual harassment
or assault, and there are huge risks for coming forward and doing so, whether people go to
the police, whether they report to an employer or to a school, or whether they bring a lawsuit.
LISA DESJARDINS: Judy, I want to ask you.
You work with young girls.
How much of an issue is this to them, and how certain do they feel about taking a stand
in situations like this?
JUDY VREDENBURGH, President, Girls, Inc.: Yes, we asked our girls, what are the top
issues that you're facing?
And 70 percent of girls, viewing a list of 12 issues, identified as their number one
issue bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault.
So, it's a real issue for girls, absolutely.
LISA DESJARDINS: But do you get a sense that they feel certain about what is acceptable
and when they should be advocates for themselves, when they should stand up for themselves?
JUDY VREDENBURGH: Yes.
Girls know when they have been violated, when there's been inappropriate behavior, inappropriate
touching.
They absolutely know that.
I think that a case like this becomes a surrogate case on behalf of all girls, including girls
from low-income communities who wouldn't have the resources to fight for themselves, and
it says to girls that it's not acceptable.
You can stand up and speak out when you feel something that is not right.
LISA DESJARDINS: Maya, just a few minutes ago, you mentioned two terms, sexual harassment
and sexual assault.
This was a case of sexual assault, is what Taylor Swift was mentioning.
But I wonder about definitions here.
Sexual assault is a very broad term.
That could mean anything from groping to rape.
How are we defining that as nation right now, and is that helpful?
Do we need to talk about this in more clear terms?
MAYA RAGHU: Absolutely.
And I think that's one of the reasons that this case is so important, because it is continuing
a conversation that began earlier this year with the other high-profile sexual harassment
and sexual assault cases that we have been hearing about.
And it's helping people understand that these sorts of behaviors and crimes exist on a continuum.
I think a lot of people, when they hear about sexual assault, they immediately think of
rape.
But they're not thinking necessarily about groping, as you pointed out, which is incredibly
serious.
But it tends to be minimized, and people might say, oh, it was nothing, or don't let it bother
you, when, in fact, it's incredibly traumatic.
I also think that we tend to separate sexual harassment and sexual assault.
Sexual harassment is in the workplace, it's at school, but it's not criminal.
But, actually, if sexual assault or groping or rape occurs in the workplace or at school,
that is sexual harassment.
LISA DESJARDINS: So, that's talking about the language.
Judy, I want to talk you about resources.
Obviously, Taylor Swift is a woman of wealth.
She has power in her industry, and she acknowledges that, that she has privilege.
What about the girls that you work with, everyday women?
When they encounter something like this, what is the reality for how they could handle this?
Do you think they would end up in the same situation with Taylor Swift necessarily, or
are there more barriers for them?
JUDY VREDENBURGH: I believe that Taylor Swift is a role model, but they have role models
among themselves.
There are girls who are abused, assaulted every single day, and creating a safe place
where those girls can come forward, tell the truth about what happened to them, and be
emboldened to tell the truth to power, to not accept this is really important.
And so we create at Girls, Inc., safe places where girls can openly share what they're
dealing with and get the support they need to come forward and not allow that to happen
to them in the future and certainly not to blame themselves.
LISA DESJARDINS: Maya, are different women treated differently?
Are there barriers for women, even those who decide to come forward, when they are going
to courts, when they are dealing with the legal system or at the workplace with these
claims?
MAYA RAGHU: Absolutely.
There are all kinds of barriers.
Some of them are overt.
They might be discriminatory.
And, sometimes, they're subtle or implicit biases.
There's also economic barriers to coming forward.
As you pointed out, Taylor Swift is a wealthy person who has a lot of resources and could
afford to bring a lawsuit.
But that's definitely not the case for many, many survivors.
And if you're working a low-wage job in retail and you're supporting a family, coming forward
and reporting sexual assault, and then losing your job is devastating for the entire family.
And what ends up happening is that people are forced to stay silent about this situation,
and it becomes the price that people have to pay to keep a job or to stay in school.
LISA DESJARDINS: Do you see more women reporting in workplace situations like this, or no,
right now?
MAYA RAGHU: I would say that, definitely, in the last couple years, we have seen an
increase in people reaching out to us for information and assistance about sexual harassment
and sexual assault.
I think the conversation in this country in the last couple of years, because of high-profile
cases, has certainly inspired and empowered many women and men to come forward and talk
about what's happened to them and seek justice, and, more importantly, also started thinking
about, how do we hold perpetrators accountable and make sure that they're bearing the consequences
for this behavior?
Because, otherwise, it's going to be impossible to prevent this from happening in the first
place.
LISA DESJARDINS: Judy, briefly, I talked to a mother and a 13-year-old today who told
me they had different reactions to this.
One wasn't surprised that Taylor Swift came out ahead.
That was the 13-year-old.
She said she felt that, most times, victims win in these cases.
The mother felt differently.
Very briefly, is there a generational shift going on here?
JUDY VREDENBURGH: Yes, I think the public is ahead of institutions, and young people
understand that this is not appropriate behavior.
This is not something to hide about or feel ashamed about, but to speak out about.
So, I do think there's a change, and we're seeing the public not accept unhealthy touching,
violation, of respecting the dignity of every person.
It's not acceptable.
LISA DESJARDINS: Judy Vredenburgh...
JUDY VREDENBURGH: And Title IX enforcement in the schools is very important.
LISA DESJARDINS: Judy...
JUDY VREDENBURGH: Sexual harassment is -- happens at schools, and that's not acceptable, and
we have to make sure that that enforcement is real.
LISA DESJARDINS: Judy Vredenburgh from Girls, Inc., thank you so much.
And, Maya Raghu, thank you also for joining us.
MAYA RAGHU: Thank you.
HARI SREENIVASAN: Now a look at the state of global terrorism.
It comes from Ali Soufan, a former FBI counterterrorism agent who identified the 9/11 hijackers.
He details the evolution of terrorism in this newest addition to the "NewsHour" Bookshelf,
"The Anatomy of Terror: From the Death of Bin Laden to the Rise of the Islamic State."
He recently sat down with Margaret Warner.
MARGARET WARNER: You write in this book that the night Osama bin Laden was announced to
have been killed, you were home alone.
And then, instead of feeling jubilation, you felt troubled.
Why was that?
ALI SOUFAN, Author, "The Anatomy of Terror: From the Death of Bin Laden to the Rise of
the Islamic State": I was happy that we finally got him.
And a lot of my colleagues and friends that I know who sacrificed so much, some of them
their lives, you know, finally can rest, knowing that he's dead.
But also, at the same time, I kind of was troubled that we are now not fighting an organization
anymore.
The terrorists, the threat mutated to a message.
Bin Laden accomplished something way bigger.
He had a message that was spreading around the Muslim world.
Unfortunately, on May 2, 2011, we killed bin Laden, but we didn't kill his message.
His message lives.
MARGARET WARNER: Now, the world has been focused for the last five years or so on Islamic State.
ALI SOUFAN: Yes.
MARGARET WARNER: Major move to get rid of their territorial caliphate.
When that's accomplished, what then?
ALI SOUFAN: See, we forget that the Islamic State basically was a branch of al-Qaida.
It used to be al-Qaida in Iraq.
So, when it comes to the message, it's the same message of Osama bin Laden.
They differ at what stage they are in, in their plan.
Are they in stage two, where they just need to create chaos and manage that chaos?
Or they are in stage three, establishing a caliphate?
ISIS decided that they are in stage three, established a caliphate and prepare for the
final confrontation with the West.
But, today, as you mentioned, we see ISIS dwindling.
We see that terrorist organization, with all their bravado, losing their territory and
going back from a proto-state to an underground terrorist organization.
I think most of the people who joined ISIS are still believers in what bin Laden started
back in the early '90s.
I won't be greatly surprised to see some kind of a merger between these two organizations
under the flag of the message of Osama bin Laden.
And I think his son Hamza today is trying to be the person who claims that message.
MARGARET WARNER: The next bin Laden.
ALI SOUFAN: Exactly.
MARGARET WARNER: You, in almost a novelistic way, look at bin Laden or al-Zarqawi, who
was the head of al-Qaida in Iraq, or Baghdadi, the head of ISIS.
ALI SOUFAN: Yes.
MARGARET WARNER: Was there a common thread among them?
ALI SOUFAN: Well, yes, absolutely.
And the common thread is their own belief.
It is people who believe that there is an ongoing war between the West and the United
States.
And anyone who does not in their way of interpreting events around the world is an infidel, regardless
if you're a Muslim or you're not a Muslim.
That doesn't matter.
And that's why almost 95 percent of the victims of this form of terrorism are Muslims.
MARGARET WARNER: Now , you mentioned Hamza, Osama bin Laden's son, who, by my count, would
be, what, 27 years old?
(CROSSTALK)
ALI SOUFAN: Twenty-eight, yes.
MARGARET WARNER: You think he's the coming face of al-Qaida?
ALI SOUFAN: I think they are preparing him to be the coming face.
I mean, he has been a face of al-Qaida since he was a child.
He was always featured in the propaganda tapes of al-Qaida.
At the age of 13, he was the voice of fiery poems in the presence of his dad about al-Qaida
and about jihad.
So, many of those old members of al-Qaida fondly remember him.
Hamza, recently, he put five or six messages, but only in the last message, al-Qaida announced
him to be sheik, which indicates a promotion.
Before, they used to call him Brother Mujahid.
So, we know that al-Qaida is putting him in a leadership position.
MARGARET WARNER: Let's go back to the threat to the United States.
ALI SOUFAN: Yes.
MARGARET WARNER: How can the West, which has been at it for 16 years already, confront
that?
ALI SOUFAN: We're not seeing, you know, organizational terrorism threat anymore.
I think the boundaries, you know, between ISIS, al-Qaida, you name it, whatever you
want to name it...
MARGARET WARNER: All their affiliates.
ALI SOUFAN: All the affiliates.
It's kind of very blurry.
I think we have to focus on the message, not on the organization.
I think the threat of terrorism mutated since 9/11.
It shifted from being an organization to a message with affiliates across the Muslim
world.
And these affiliates are gaining a lot of strength because of the civil wars that exist
in places like Syria or Iraq or Libya or Somalia, you name it.
So, I think what we need to do, number one, is to find a political solution and diplomatic
solution for these conflicts.
Without solving the conflicts in these areas, it's going to be extremely difficult to diminish
the threat.
Second, we need to force countries in the region not to use sectarianism in their geopolitical
struggle against each other to garnish back influence in the region.
Third, we need to fight the narrative by exposing the hypocrisy of an organization that claims
or a message that claims the United States and the West are at war with Islam.
But they kill more Muslims than anyone else.
MARGARET WARNER: Do you think that the United States or the West is capable of doing effective
countermessaging?
ALI SOUFAN: I don't think governments can do the job, not in the United States, not
even in the Muslim world, because governments don't have the credibility.
But there are a lot of things that governments can do.
We need to facilitate civil organizations to stand up and speak against these extremists.
Sixteen years after 9/11, we still don't even know what to call the enemy, rather than form
a comprehensive strategy.
And that's what I try to do in this book.
I try to write a novel with real characters in it, with the hope that the American people
understand the threat that you are dealing with.
And I hope, in a small, little way, I will be able to contribute to better understanding
of the threat that we all continue to face 20 years later.
MARGARET WARNER: Well, Ali Soufan, "Anatomy of Terror: From the Death of Bin Laden to
the Rise of the Islamic State."
Thank you very much.
ALI SOUFAN: Thank you.
HARI SREENIVASAN: And a news update before we leave you tonight.
A federal court in Texas has struck down two of that state's Republican-drawn congressional
districts.
A three-judge panel ruled lawmakers drew the districts to undermine the influence of Hispanic
voters.
The court said the districts must be redrawn before the 2018 elections.
And that's the "NewsHour" for tonight.
On Wednesday, Miles O'Brien previews the solar eclipse that's expected to travel coast to
coast across the country next week.
I'm Hari Sreenivasan.
Join us online and again here tomorrow evening.
For all of us at the "PBS NewsHour," thank you, and see you soon.
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