Welcome to this edition of prophecy in the news I'm
your host Kevin Clarkson And I want to thank you
for joining us today we have a fascinating show
and one to follow this up really want to ask you the
question what do you believe about hell the
Bible speaks of it Christ spoke of it more than
anyone many people today say that this is hell here
on Earth there are skeptics even within
Theological Seminary who deny its existence and
call it a holdover from a devious ideas we're going
to explore today with a man who was given a vision
he says by the Lord that corroborates what the
Scripture teaches about the subject of hell our
guest today is Bill Wiese and Bill was a realist or
and a business man in that sense and God really did
something amazing in his life some years ago he
wrote a book called The twenty three minutes and
Hell he may be familiar with it and we're
celebrating the tenth anniversary of it this
year it sold a multimillion copies and
Bill welcome to profit in the news thank you past
have an honor to be with you thanks for having me
well it's good to be with you I like to often just
have a good time and joke around but when I get to
this topic there's just a sense of a a sudden
heaviness and seriousness that comes upon me yeah it
does bring that out and it should be because it's
such a serious decision you know if people could
get a glimpse of how for even five seconds they
would realize how severe it is and.
I understand you have to make the decision now
while you're alive to to avoid this horrible place
called Hell it's really real just like Jesus
talked about where you were more than a five
second view you titled your book twenty three
minutes you want to tell us about really the
experience out of which this whole thing was
brought to the fore in your life yes.
You know I've never studied the topic of hell
before this I was a Christian at that point
for twenty eight years this happen November
twenty third one thousand nine hundred eight and my
wife and I attended a prayer meeting that we
tended every Sunday night came home like any other
normal night.
And at like I said I had never studied the topic of
hell at that time I had never gone the dark movies
I've never drank and never taken drugs and I never
had a vision before so not what candidate for this
guy the things that were not me and I was
conservative person I was not given over to things
like that but yet I got up at three o'clock in the
morning to get a glass of water
and passed it haven't suddenly I was pulled out
of my body like being drawn up out of your body
and I found myself falling through the air down this
long tunnel and it was getting hotter and hotter
and I entered this open cavern like area and I
landed on an actual stone floor in a prison cell in
hell you're awake or your i was away away while I
had walked to the living room and I saw my body
fall to the floor so this was not a near death
experience this was an out of body experience that
would be classified as a vision in the Bible
remembrance and Corinthians twelve wanted
to Paul when he was caught up in heaven in a vision
he said whether in the body or out of the body he
did know and he saw the third heaven right and yes
he doesn't know why did you know right alive or
dead and but the largest happen to give me a
glimpse and I saw my body lying on the floor so
and in a vision you can actually travel like Paul
and John actually traveled to heaven in the vision in
their spirit bodies First Corinthians fifteen forty
four talks about a natural body in a spirit body and
is equal Chapter eight he was picked up by his hair
Was carried from Babylon to do so in a vision so
you can travel in a vision and that's what this was
and job seven fourteen says You scare me with
dreams and terrify me through visions
and Isaiah twenty one two he was given a grevious
vision so you can have a grevious terrifying vision
I remember Jeremiah had a vision was exhausted with
over and to Daniel was terrified that's right
right.
So so this was just a vision and but it changed
my life this vision and so but when I first came to
in this prison cell I wondered how do I get here
why am I here but the first thing I noticed
faster was the intense heat it was so far beyond
the ability to sustain life I wondered how could
I be alive in this place
and lying face down on the floor in this prison cell
there scripture for everything I'm saying it's
in our book that's what's important for people to
believe not my experience surely that's just the
Word of God I'm just a signpost pointing to the
Scriptures but there was I was in this prison cell
and I noticed I had no physical strength in my
body whatsoever you're completely void of
physical strength and help and I say fourteen nine
and ten points out and Psalms eighty eight for
them I would you describe it like being just like as
live as a rag or just you know if you ever had the
flu or had a flu and you felt weak like a thousand
times worse and that OK and it made me to even
move right any movement took tremendous effort but
Seven hundred twenty eight says in Him Christ we live
and move and have our being so even movement
comes from God It's not automatic
but let's leave me to think that maybe in the
situation of hell there's a lesser.
It gets a qualitative a lesser presence of God but
there's less awareness of that.
You know what I'm trying to say yeah yeah suddenly
God is there but it's in a diminished capacity
obviously All right the way the Saints will enjoy
No His attributes and goodness are withdrawn
from hell and.
I observe these there were demons in the cell reptile
ish in appearance bumps in scales all over the one's
body they were pacing in the cell like a vicious
caged animal and they had a rule for extremely
ferocious demeanor about them and they were
blasting and cursing God then extreme hatred for
God then they directed at hatred they had for God
towards me I wonder why what have I done to them
but this one demon picked me up threw me into the
wall this prison cell I collapsed on the floor or.
Why am I living through this I should be dead the
other demon picking up dockets cause my chest
just tore the flesh open this is actually happening
to me and again I could believe I was surviving
this why am i still alive
but I ask just for clarification for our
viewers when you are already a believer in
Christ I was a believer for twenty eight years
that time yeah because you'd been to a Bible
study and prayer meeting that LIDAR dry day so are
you going around your mind Lord have you forsaken me
now because one thing I the LORD blocked it for my
mind that I was a Christian OK he hid that
fact from me and it was just your full awareness
of experiencing is right that was your total
attention right the reason he did that was like
seeing Luke twenty four sixteen when Jesus
appeared to disciples on the road to a mass It says
their eyes were holden that they should not know
him
well the Lord blinded them from who it was he had
that fact from them so he hid this fact from me and
I was a Christian for this reason I see follows there
is a Christian which I was
but I didn't realize I would have known praise
God he's getting out of here right right
but he wanted me to experience what they feel
as a lost person would the lot the hopelessness so in
the sense you were standing in their shoes
right right and all in the hope of what about a word
that is right
and that's the part the worst part of how is
understanding you'll never get out of this place see
that we don't understand what it's like to be
hopeless you know it's life because even if your
situation is so painful you can die to get out of
it but how you have the understanding there's no
one going to come rescue you not ever going to get
out of this place and that really is the worst part
of understanding that you're not going to get
out and we are certainly not Catholic in our
theology but I've never forgotten.
Dante wrote the vision of the writer and oh
and I remember as he entered course above it
said Abandon hope all right he winter here right
what what what exactly are five thought with no hope
I say if the.
Thirty eight eighteen says those who go down the pit
cannot hope for the truth
and we know Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and
Life they have no hope for him because too late.
And anyway as I was observing all this I
noticed I had a body Matthew ten twenty eight
talks about a body and Luke sixteen the rich man
number he wanted a drop of water to move his tongue
he could speak yet eyes to let you have a body and
all these are says they gnash their teeth Right
exactly so but this body was stored with stands
these torments that I know something there was no
blood or water coming from the wounds that the demon
inflicted
but Leviticus seventeen eleven says the life of
the flesh is in the blood Well there's no life in
house there's no blood.
That's interesting I thought that is it there's
no water in hell there is no these demons have no
mercy over you whatsoever they have an extreme
hatred for mankind about this time pastor it went
dark and I believe it was God's presence there too
illuminated so I could see but then he would drew his
light
and it was absolute pitch black darkness I mean you
cannot see a hand in front of your face Lamentations
three six says
he has set me in dark places as they the be dead
of old Jude thirteen mentions blackness of
darkness forever the mist of darkness right and I
was taken out of this prison cell pastor sitting
next to this big pit a fire as a lord I observed
it was about a mile across with literal flames raging
high up in this open cavern and it wasn't
metaphorical fire it was real literal fire I felt
the heat I saw the flames but more importantly it's
what the scripture says you know Psalms eleven six
says upon the wicked he will rain fire and
brimstone a horrible tempest in Matthew
thirteen forty nine mentions the angel sever
the wicked majestic cast away get in a furnace of
fire
but this is where I could first see people inside
this pit there were literally thousands of
people inside this pit burning screaming and it's
a most awful thing to see a person on fire and
they're being shot by.
Back in this pit by demons The screams are so loud
and deafening you want to get away from the screams
but you have to endure that for all eternity the
loudness of people in agony the stench in hell
is so foul and putrid the worst like the worst open
sewers you can ever imagine
and the smell of the demons have a disgusting
order to them remember Jesus rebuked the foul
spirits twenty five years and the smell of it smell
like burning flesh and burning software
and if you go to Hawaii to the volcano They have
signs posted where you cannot go past a certain
point because the toxicity of the software coming up
it's called software dioxide you breathe it
it's toxic it will kill you well will Soffer just
another word for brimstone or Brimstone is all
through the Bible yes you're breathing in this
foul putrid disgusting air that you don't want to
breed but it's even worse than that because there's
not enough air to breathe in hell you have to fight
for even the tiniest bit of oxygen in hell and you
deny that so any moment you feel like you're going
to suffocate
but you know Isaiah forty two five says the Lord
gives breath to the people upon the earth you're not
upon the earth you're down deep beneath the earth
and that's another thing I understood I was down deep
beneath the earth I descended to get there I
ascended when I left but more importantly there's
forty nine verses of talk about where the current
hell
or Sheol is located the pit young Zico twenty six
twenty number sixteen thirty two and thirty
three very clear down deep in the earth but I
understood that I also understood there were
different levels of torment and degrees of
punishment Remember Jesus said Matthew twenty three
fourteen you sever see the greater damnation and for
us a letter right in their hypocrisy right inferring
there's a lesser damnation Our Matthew Chance if
Teenie said It shall be more tolerable for Saddam
a bore in their judgment than for that city and
frame is a lesson tolerable for Hebrews ten
twenty eight says and how much worse than the
punishment suppose it shall be for you you who
have trodden under foot the Son of God there's a
worse punishment but my point is there is no
tolerable level in hell any level is horrendous.
Are beyond what you can imagine you don't get to
be with people even though I saw all those people I
saw people in the pit burning they're kept at a
distance from each other isolations you never have
any conversation with anyone your complete
isolation you're just by yourself
and you know you have your full memory just like Luke
sixteen a rich man remembered his brother's
live remember my wife I thought about my wife I'm
on the earth I thought I'll never to see her
again on never be out to say goodbye to her.
And you don't realize where tormenting thought
that is you have no finality with your family
with your loved ones
and they don't realize that you still still exist
you're just down deep in the earth I'm here an
enormous regret as you say that right at the feeling
of.
No hope but also right for a label to go back and do
anything well just to be on not have any finality
would to say goodbye to your family and you close
a people did that any closure that you don't
realize how tormenting that is and you understand
when you're in held his job seven once he goes
down the she'll she'll come up no more you have
that understanding you're not going to get out you
can't say goodbye to anyone and to see Death
does not mean cease to exist death means
separation from God You still exist you're just
down deep in your well I do want to get to some
other questions that spring out of this but
quickly how did this experience come to a
conclusion that that day well as I was observing
all this for maggots and snakes and torment and so
forth I began being lifted up this dark tunnel
and in the midst of this darkness pastor suddenly
this bright light appeared.
And I knew immediately who was there was no doubt my
mind I didn't see his face I just saw the outline of
a man standing in a bright pure holy light and I just
called out his name I just said Jesus.
And he said I am.
And what I shal features just just just exactly why
behind right right now.
He said I am I passed out I went out I can explain
it to Revelation one sixteen when John saw him
he said his countenance was bright as a sign it
was a dead man and I felt his death
but he touched me I came to and it hit me so
strongly at his feet that if he would have gone to
the cross I would be in that place for all
eternity
I was so grateful for the cross What a day away for
what's right and that's the whole thing and then
he answered some thoughts that I had and so forth
and but the thing that he pointed out to me that I
was allowed to feel was a piece of his heart
when we went above the earth in this whirlwind
tunnel we came out of hell and he.
Turn around and look back and people are falling one
after another after night back down into hell
and he actually wept when he saw people falling into
hell
and he allowed me to feel peace of his heart how
much he loves people the anguish he feels for a
soul falling into hell
he doesn't want one person to go there and he
actually went back couldn't stand even feel a
piece of the love he has for people you know fees
are one thousand census love passes knowledge he
doesn't want to see anybody go to hell but
because he loves man he gives in that free will to
choose right.
Such powerful experience bill coming years ago with
no November twenty third one thousand nine hundred
eight OK So about one thousand years ago when
we're talking with the always and he's the author
of twenty three minutes in hell this book has been
out for ten years this marks the ten year
anniversary of it it's a multimillion bestseller
It's a drawing a lot of attention we're going to
address some questions in a minute you may have
about why would you have an experience like this
why isn't the Bible up Didn't Jesus say that you
know he told the rich man inhale that they have the
scriptures Moses in the broth It's why would this
happen and there's this counter of the Bible or
what are we to make of this we're going to be
addressing those questions in a in a moment but I
really think you'd like to have a copy and if you got
this ten years ago there been an expansion made and
did you say four new chapters or a chapter new
materie.
There this is available as always of the eight
hundred number on your screen or going to our
website at prophecy in the News dot com Go to our
bookstore or call the number in our helpful
staff will be there to help place your order this
is fifty ninety five plus shipping and handling and
I really do believe for a lot of people this could
be a great eye opener not just for people that are
lost I understand that they may have some fear
inside and a surface skepticism a kind of
bravado but also the true skepticism as you found
pressure within the church correct Tell me about that
well a lot of Christians actually don't that's one
of the things the Lord said to me many people do
not believe in how
and he said even some miles my own people do not
believe how is real which that statement surprised
me I thought all Christians believe in how
we found out since many Christians believe in
annihilationism that's a teaching us says if you
deny Jesus you simply cease to exist
or universalism that's a teaching that believes had
no matter what you believe eventually everyone will
make it heaven
not a false teaching or soul sleep so the Lord
just want to me to point people to the Scriptures a
myth and by those be persuaded you tell me I
believe that you have a rather one hundred fifty
verses that scripture cooperates what you saw
exactly and that's what's important for them to
believe let's let's think about that a moment I know
that you go rather than are able to give talks and
presentations of your experience and sometimes
you put it aside another Pastor Don Jones who had
ninety minutes in heaven now done hyper I'm sorry I
said done Joe.
Forgive me.
But but that's quite an intriguing thing but you
said as you've done this and traveled all over the
country.
That you've opened it up for questions in you begin
to notice a pattern that there are like ten of the
top most common
questions would you write would you tell us kind of
what you encounter in that room and how you deal with
those.
Yes sure one of the top questions is and this is
usually from this is from an unsaved person number
one is you know if God so loving and so good how can
he send a good person to hell
and I explain one number one God doesn't send
anybody to hell it's our own words that condemn as
Jesus said Matthew twelve thirty seven your own
words will condemn you because he said in
Revelation twenty one eight he said all
unbelievers shall have their partner like a fire
so there's a warning he gave us a warning if you
don't believe the Word of God you'll end up in a
lake of fire
but people say I don't believe the Bible that's
why he could say your own words of condemning he's
not sending anyone but number two they base it on
being good they think that have a good person good
person but they don't understand that it's not
our standard of good it's God's standard of good and
James two ten says if we found his law and one
point were guilty of all if we lie once if we steal
one thing if we have one last Will thought that the
same as committing adultery said and that's
just three the Ten Commandments so for going
to be judged by that standard of good would we
be guilty or innocent there's even a scripture
in Proverbs twenty four nine that says even the
thought of bullishness is a sin
void one full of so that's a pretty high standard so
none of us can stand before a holy God say I'm
pretty good job fifteen sixteen says man is so
filthy he drinks iniquity like water so our standard
of God and gods are two different things thank God
that is not based on being good because none of us
would not be righteous nose on righteous as not
well and good right and sometimes an analogy would
help people understand this because they still
struggle over this good but if you went and found
the most expensive home in the country knocked on
their door and said Scuse me but I'm moving in with
you because I'm a good person I think people
would say no right you don't know them you have
no relationship with them yet people go through
their whole life they have nothing to do with God
They deny Jesus is a Son of God which he said is
the only way to his house then at the end of a their
life they knock on his door demand I live there
because they're good what does good have to do with
it you don't have a relationship with him.
See God offers to be people's father throughout
their whole life
but they push him away see God as their He's not he's
their creator he's not their father to the invite
in Jesus or savior exactly then he becomes their
father now we have the privilege of living at his
house so see good won't get you into heaven it's
not based on being good it's based on a
relationship with Jesus Christ So that's number
one so other people have asked you know why does OK
seventy or eighty years of sin why does that deserve
an eternity of punishment couldn't God let someone
out after a while
but see times are wrong premise.
It's not based on time and again it's based on
relationship because our time spent in hell would
represent works I paid my five hundred years in hell
I paid off my sin right then you're saying I paid
for my sin and were saved by grace not by works of
facing to eight nine says So those are some are and
other reason is our time is not valuable enough to
pay for since only the shed blood of Jesus can
pay for cents in Hebrews nine twenty two says
without the shedding of blood there is no
remission of sins so again our time is not valuable
enough to pay for this and so time is the whole wrong
premise
but another reason is we have to understand that
who were sinning against There you go and Thomas
Aquinas pointed this out he said the higher the
position the one sinned against the grave or the
sense in other words if I lied to you would be wrong
but if I lie to the Supreme Court it be worse
because of their position if I punch you in the
stomach at the wrong but if I punch my mother in
the stomach that be far worse because of her
position God is infinitely greater in position
but he's also infinitely greater in being if I step
on a bug and kill it no big deal even though it's
life but if I kill a dog or cat that's worse that's
deserving of some kind of punishment yet if I kill a
human being that's far worse deserving a much
greater punishment and we've sinned against a
holy omnipotent perfect eternal God.
Therefore our sin against him is deserving of
eternal punishment
and that's why it took an eternal god to pay for our
eternally deserve sent.
To get explained so Stan who they're sinning
against it's not just a human being we're sinning
against a holy
omnipotent perfect God
and I know that probably one of the other questions
surely within the top ten would be would ask you
about the people that die without hearing the Gospel
right right person remote jungle ever heard the
Gospel
but you know first John five thousand nine hundred
says the whole world lies in wickedness That's the
whole world and Psalms nine seventeen said the
wicked shall be turned into hell and all nations
that forget God then X.
Seven hundred thirty says God commands all men
everywhere to repent all men everywhere have to
repent and in first John four three says every soul
that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in
the flesh.
Is condemned so we all every single person has to
repent
and has to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord
Savior John a twenty four he said if you die in your
sins you a book you are dying your sins if you
believe not that I am he if we dine or sins we
cannot enter heaven so what seed God will get
through that person in the remote jungle that's going
to ask you that were right but but how is it fair if
they never heard well because Romans one number
one hold man accountable because of creation you
know the evidence of design is all around us
the human by how well it's made a baby being born the
plant life the animal kingdom it shows design
that points to a designer so God says I hold you
accountable just because a design is overwhelming Lee
evident all around you so if that person in the
remote jungle will look and say there must be a
creator that made all this and shows just an ounce of
humility and says Who are you God will God will then
find a way to get to that person there's
missionaries that are sent there there's Bibles or
churches everywhere there's T.
V.
Radio Internet also there.
Description job thirty three that says he even
gives man dreams and visions to keep back his
soul from the pit so that person in the jungle he
will give them a dream or vision or get a missionary
across our path or more Bible in their hand to
show them the way of salvation we've heard it
I'm sure you have to in your circles incredible
and it dotes of people who were just what you
described and God got the gospel to them exactly he
really did and to some little bit humility I
think he will be maybe the word because you know
Romans one says that they.
They did not acknowledging this God knew they were
thankful that's right and and humility the opposite
of that right and it says A Romans one that they
push him away exactly there's nobody in hell
unjustly That's right people know what they're
doing they're pushing got away in Sanaa I don't want
you in my life and then you know I don't want to
go too far into this but you know there is there is
for us as believers in the character of God You've
already referenced the fact that there are
degrees of punishment and certainly if you're
someone who's never heard this consigned to
separation from God forever
but they were like say the Pharaoh sees who stand so
close to the law right that right that's what's
really bad right right their condemnation with
was greater Exactly and so I'm not lessening the
torments of hell right but God is a just God right so
there will be lesser degrees of punishment and
suffering and different levels of hell our time is
just collapsing like this I want to disco on and
we're going to do another show but we're really
going to go off of this on to your other book about
what happens when I die but maybe we can revisit
some of the thoughts just really quickly you shared
you weren't seeking such a vision you really wish to
God It kind of left you alone now and then you
just got shared a Bible study and things took off
from there more people wanted to hear your story
until it ultimately resulted after seven years
in the publication of the book and and all but you
mentioned he's a famous lay preacher a Baptist.
Tinkerer in England John Bunyan and you said you
discovered he had.
Heaven and Hell that he wrote about and much of it
paralleled you're right you got to be quick with
him we know he wrote the programs progress
but he also wrote a book called Visions of heaven
and hell were God showed him how he saw the exact
same things I saw and much more I did know about his
book too after I wrote mine but he's considered
very credible by even the can conserve of scholars
Yes visions of Heaven and Hell check that out well
could you in about a minute's time take this to
a point of war we do with lives like you would end
at a church service where yes.
You know if you don't know Jesus Christ as your Lord
and Savior This is the only way you can be saved
Jesus said John fourteen six I am the Way the Truth
and the life no man comes on to the Father but by me
he is the only way he loves you he gave his life
for you died on a cross and in Revelation twenty
fifteen says Whosoever was not found written in the
Book of Life was cast in a lake of fire he has a book
and you can be assured your name is put in his
book if you would just say this prayer if you're
willing to do this you can enter heaven just say dear
God in heaven I know I have sinned and I cannot
save myself I believe you sent your son Jesus to die
on across from me and he was crucified died and was
buried
and rose again from the dead I ask you to forgive
me my sins I'm sorry I repent come into my life I
receive you as my Lord and Savior thank you for
saving me thank you for taking me to heaven.
In Jesus name amen thank you our guest has been
Bill Wiese we will be seeing you in the next
show as we follow up with him until then we're going
to keep looking up.
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