Please be seated.
Hello, Your Honor.
Hello.
This is the case of Martinez v. Hernandez.
Thank you, Ron. Good day, everyone.
AUDIENCE: Good day.
Ms. Martinez, you say your family is torn apart
since the defendant has denied both of your children,
four-year-old Richard II
and three-year-old Reney. Is that correct?
LILLIE: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: You have petitioned the court for a DNA test
to prove the truth
and hope that the results will save your relationship.
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. Hernandez, you say
you were sucked into claiming the plaintiff's two children
and can't trust anything she's said.
You're currently behind more than $6,000 in child support,
and refuse to care for either child
until it's proven that you are their biological father.
Yes, Your Honor.
So, Ms. Hernandez, what has he done for the children?
LILLIE: Absolutely nothing until about three weeks ago.
He did get them at least $200 worth of clothing,
but other than that that's all he's done their whole life.
That's a lie, Your Honor.
I've tried to do as much as I possibly can
since the beginning, since day one.
LILLIE: No, he hasn't, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: And so how is this affecting the kids?
Um, my kids suffer.
I mean, every night when I put them to bed
they cry, asking where he's at.
He doesn't call to check on them,
to even get them on the phone and say, "Can I talk to them?
"Can I see how they're doing?"
RICHARD: That's a lie.
He does nothing.
RICHARD: I try as much as I can,
but it's hard to try to do that
when I don't know if they're mine for sure. I...
But what I don't get is, if he's denying them,
he stuck around.
You know, he keeps coming back for them.
He keeps trying to be in their life.
If that was a problem,
he should have tried to figure out things a long time ago.
JUDGE LAKE: So, obviously,
the relationship is in trouble.
How did this start?
Uh, we first met, she was trying to
get all over me or whatever from the beginning,
trying to... But I ignored her.
Were you interested in having a relationship with him at that point?
Relations, but not a relationship.
AUDIENCE: Ooh.
JUDGE LAKE: Okay.
And what were your intentions, Mr. Hernandez?
It started getting serious. Well, I felt like it was.
And, I don't know, I wanted to be with her.
All of the sudden, I find out
she's doing other things with my friends and stuff.
JUDGE LAKE: Doing other things like?
RICHARD: Like...
It's one incident he's talking about, Your Honor.
It was a one-time thing.
Me and his friend had messed around.
(AUDIENCE GASPING)
See? See?
You see the stuff...
JUDGE LAKE: Wow!
All right, so you stayed with her?
Yes, I don't know what I was thinking at the time,
but it's been so long now...
LILLIE: And he can't say that because
even prior to that I always told him
that I didn't want to be in a relationship.
He forced it, he was always like,
"Come on, please be with me.
"I don't know why you don't want to be with me."
That's a lie.
And I told him I wanted to be single
because I wasn't ready to be tied down with one person.
So every time I would have,
you know, a relationship with other people...
That's a lie.
...I would tell him.
She sleeps with many of my friends.
I would tell him and I would say,
"Hey, I did have sex with somebody the night before or whatever."
And he would just sit there and he'd be like,
"I still love you. I still want to be with you."
That's on him. That's not me.
Uh, she says the ball was in your court
and you picked it up and kept...
And kept dribbling.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
I just felt like it was something else
other than that. I didn't...
JUDGE LAKE: It sounds like she's being brutally honest with you
throughout this, but you're not wanting to hear it.
LILLIE: Exactly.
If she didn't want to be with me
and she didn't want to... She didn't like me,
well, why would she still come to my house?
I did have feeling for him, but I was
not ready to be committed.
A two-hour drive...
I liked hanging out with him.
He was more like my best friend when we first...
I was going through a lot of things
and he was kind of like the sunshine to my storm.
So it was kind of like I liked his energy,
I liked to be around him,
but, you know, he wanted more than what I wanted
and what I was ready for.
Whether it was with his friends
or it was someone else,
I mean, you're admitting you didn't want to be committed,
we ultimately are here in Paternity Court...
Mmm-hmm.
JUDGE LAKE: ...so obviously, uh, something happened.
RICHARD: Okay, let me tell you about that, Your Honor.
We're still on and off, right?
I called her and she's like,
"I'm with this person," which is my friend.
And I was like, "Okay."
Next day, I talk to her and she's like,
"Okay, yeah, I did
"have intercourse with this man."
I forgave her. And a few weeks later
she finds out she's pregnant.
Now, is that true, Ms. Martinez?
LILLIE: Yes, it is.
Were you intimate with another man
a few weeks before you told him you were pregnant?
Yes, I did have intercourse with him three times,
and unprotected, that night.
And, um, I told him about it,
he still wanted to be with me.
She lied about it.
I did.
She said it was protected.
I did tell him that week,
"We did it protected," I did at the time.
I mean, why are you having all this unprotected sex?
Um, I would say...
RICHARD: Because she's a slut.
No, no, no!
AUDIENCE: Oh!
We're going to be...
No, we're going to be respectful in this courtroom.
RICHARD: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
Please don't get on my nerves.
RICHARD: I'm sorry.
LILLIE: You were still with me, right?
Other than what I just told you right now about having intercourse,
I wasn't having unprotected sex with everybody.
Yes, that time I did,
it was in the heat of the moment,
everything was right. He didn't have protection,
one thing led to another and it did happen.
Five weeks after that incident
and then she's pregnant, so...
LILLIE: The only reason
why I know, without a doubt,
that he's the father is because
I did have intercourse with him unprotected
and it was on the day that they said that the conception was.
Okay, we went to the doctor's office
and they gave us that conception wheel.
I looked...
Staying up all night obsessing over it.
Looking at the wheel all night...
Does it match up with the birth?
Mmm-hmm. But I had an, uh, um...
They had to induce me.
I wasn't ready to be into labor.
They induced me on my due date.
Which gives me doubts, too.
LILLIE: And then I had to
have an emergency C-section right after.
In your mind, you say this is his child?
LILLIE: Yes.
In your mind, Mr. Hernandez, you're saying,
"I'm thinking back to a few weeks before that
"when she admitted to me she was intimate with somebody else..."
Yes.
JUDGE LAKE: "...and I'm also thinking
"about the fact that this birth,
"this date has been induced,
"it's not the natural birth date..."
Yes.
And so you've got all these factors going in your mind,
like, "Maybe this could be off"?
Yes, Your Honor.
And I stayed up all night looking at it
and it just added up to where it was going to be exactly
to around that time with that other man.
That really messed with your mind?
Yes, ma'am.
JUDGE LAKE: Did she ever tell you
that Richard was not your son?
RICHARD: One day, Your Honor.
She just told me, she said,
"Richard's not yours," and I said, "What?"
And then she was like, "Yeah, he's not yours."
LILLIE: And it was in the heat of the moment because
at the time I was actually going into emergency surgery
to have my gall bladder removed.
It took him two hours to get back to the hospital.
Well, I come to find out he was with his friend,
picked up two girls at a bus stop...
Two hours...
And I had time to go home and...
And smoked with them
while he's in my car while I'm about to have surgery.
Is that true, Mr. Hernandez?
No, Your Honor, that's a lie.
LILLIE: And so it's not...
You told me it was the truth.
RICHARD: That's a lie, Your Honor.
Okay, Mr. Hernandez, you're lying.
LILLIE: Thank you. Thank you.
Let's just get that straight. You're lying now.
Um...
That didn't happen that way.
So, you didn't show back up to the hospital in time,
you got angry...
And I said, "That's why you're not the father."
But once she said that, Mr. Hernandez,
then all your bells start ringing?
RICHARD: Yes.
But, see, Your Honor,
I don't see how he can say that...
It pushed me to the point where I didn't even want to be there for her no more.
At the surgery I didn't want to...
I didn't want to see my son anymore.
I didn't...
I didn't want to be with her after...
Your Honor, he does this flip-flop every other day.
He's begging for his family one day
and then he doesn't want to be here.
When he wants to go get messed up with his friends
and then when he's done having his fun
that's when he wants to be a family again.
If it bothered him so much,
why would he name the child "II"?
JUDGE LAKE: Why would you name the child after you?
LILLIE: Why would you sign the birth certificate?
Because at the time...
And you signed the birth certificate?
RICHARD: Yes, I did.
LILLIE: For both of my kids that he denies.
JUDGE LAKE: Do you have any evidence that reflects?
Yes, I do, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: I'd like to see it.
Ron, will you please hand me this paperwork?
JUDGE LAKE: This is what?
LILLIE: The birth certificate.
This is the birth certificate
for Richard Anthony Hernandez II?
LILLIE: Yes.
JUDGE LAKE: Under father's name,
"Richard Anthony Hernandez."
RICHARD: Well, at the time, Your Honor, it was because
I felt like he was mine at the time.
And I loved him very much and it didn't matter
because I loved her that much that I...
But, Your Honor, they did offer him
a free DNA test at the hospital
and he signed rights saying he refused the DNA test.
Did you sign the birth certificate
because you really thought this child was yours?
Or did you sign the birth certificate
because you didn't want to disappoint Ms. Martinez?
Because it seems like
you really wanted a relationship with her.
RICHARD: I did it for both reasons.
I did not want to...
Regardless, if he wanted to be a family,
and he's saying all this stuff,
my kids are suffering. My...
My kids... He takes them a bath,
and he sits there and critiques
every little thing about them.
My kids don't deserve that.
Critiques how?
LILLIE: The way...
The way that they drink a bottle
is the way that his homeboys...
Uh, his friends drink a bottle.
Well, I know I...
Or... Hold on, hold on.
Hold on, wait, let me go ahead and finish.
Okay, talk.
Um, the way their eyebrows when they're wet
looks like his friend's eyebrows.
JUDGE LAKE: What does that have to do with anything?
LILLIE: Exactly.
You think she slept with your friends?
RICHARD: Yes, Your Honor.
With most of them.
JUDGE LAKE: And now the kids look like them?
Every time I see them...
LILLIE: They look like everybody.
...there's something different about them every single day.
Kids change every day!
RICHARD: I understand that.
Your doubt is getting the best of you at this point.
You are truly doubting it.
LILLIE: Exactly.
Because the truth is you doubted it
before the baby was even born...
RICHARD: Okay.
...but you tried to stay around.
And now, as you look at these children as they change,
you start saying these features
attribute to someone else...
RICHARD: Yes.
JUDGE LAKE: ...instead of you?
The respect...
JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Martinez, how does this affect these kids?
This is what I'm worried about.
They had...
They...
JUDGE LAKE: Does he say this out loud?
Yes, he tells them to their face that,
"Oh, you want to go see your father?"
Um, and he'll say his friend's name.
Or he'll say, um...
He'll point at some random person
and say, "There's your dad."
Oh, no, no, no.
LILLIE: And stuff like that.
LILLIE: My kids don't deserve that.
Is that true?
I didn't say none of that. I told her
when we went to the room...
Your Honor, in the hotel last night
he even said, "You want to go with your father?"
And he said the alleged person that I also had
right in the time.
To the child?
LILLIE: To my child.
RICHARD: If you wan to get specific,
she asked him that.
JUDGE LAKE: These children are three and four years old.
LILLIE: Thank you.
You all better not be having
these conversations in front of a child.
LILLIE: I don't.
I'm serious. That is wrong.
That is wrong as the day is long.
That's not right!
I don't care what your doubts are.
And I'm going to be honest with you,
you have a right to have some.
LILLIE: And I told him if he had...
But you do not have a right
to subject a child to that.
That is unacceptable.
RICHARD: Yes, ma'am.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
JUDGE LAKE: That's shameful.
RICHARD: But it's not just me, Your Honor.
I'm talking to both of you.
RICHARD: It goes both ways. I understand.
I'm talking to both of you.
RICHARD: Okay.
LILLIE: He has so many doubts
but when it's time for me to say, "Hey, you got paid on Friday.
"I need some diapers for the kids.
"I need this for the kids..."
RICHARD: That's a lie.
He doesn't do nothing.
Every time she calls me...
He sure has beer. He sure has cigarettes.
He sure has what he needs.
JUDGE LAKE: See, what I'm seeing
with the both of you is a pattern is forming.
Both of you all know how to push the other one's buttons
and know how to manipulate the other one
to get what you want.
I mean, this is just painfully clear to me.
Because you're all playing games up in here.
Because you're so consumed with doubt
that you are downgrading
and talking about children in their face.
But you're still layed up with their mother.
RICHARD: Okay, Your Honor.
Well, with our second son, we were at the hospital,
the man that she named after him
just all of a sudden as soon as he was born called me and says,
"Hey, I'm outside."
And I was like, "Whoa, how did this man
"even call me right now?
"I haven't spoken to him in months.
"Why would he even call me?
"Why would he even be outside?"
I get down there, I'm talking to him,
he wants to come upstairs. "Hey, can I see your son?"
"Well, you didn't do this with my first son.
"Why would you want to...
"Why would you want to come over here and see my son?"
And so for you that meant,
"Here we go again."
RICHARD: Yes.
Why he did that, I don't know.
It was 8:00 in the morning when my son was born.
Once again...
I'm talking.
8:30.
He didn't sign the birth certificate until after his friend left.
So, once again, if there's all this doubt, why did you sign at the end?
JUDGE LAKE: So you signed the birth certificate again...
Yes.
...for the second child?
Yes.
What are you thinking?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHS)
You're already $6,000 behind in child support...
Your Honor, I have paperwork from that.
JUDGE LAKE: ...and they might not even be yours?
Send me that paperwork, Ron.
Yes, Your Honor.
This is just getting ridiculous.
All this doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt
and signing birth certificates.
$6,336.96 in debt
for child support. Right now!
Yes.
And these arrears, they just keep growing.
LILLIE: I had to work two jobs.
Sometimes three jobs. Never got to see my kids
because he didn't want to step up as a father.
So my kids are losing out not only a father,
but a mother too.
JUDGE LAKE: And you don't participate at all?
Well, I...
JUDGE LAKE: But you signed birth...
You signed birth certificates?
RICHARD: Yes.
And then you voluntarily don't participate?
I do participate...
So you're in arrears in more ways than one.
When she asks of it I will do it,
but most of the time she doesn't even call me
and ask me and say, "Hey, I need this or that."
JUDGE LAKE: She shouldn't have to call you!
LILLIE: Thank you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
You signed the birth certificate.
See, Mr. Hernandez, this is why I'm being tough on you.
Because once you got into that hospital room
and decided,
you made a conscious decision...
But it's because I had doubt...
Stop talking when I'm talking.
I see through this entire situation.
You love this girl.
You want to be with this girl.
You always have.
Yes, Your Honor.
But she's just
in and out and all about.
Like I said, she operates from her own zone.
You know, this is the reverse, Ron, of what I see often.
You see women try to come into a courtroom
and have a man's baby to trap him.
You got up in this hospital
and tried to sign these birth certificates
so you could be in her life.
Now you in it!
But now you want to doubt.
You don't want to show up for the kids.
You guys want to have these bad-mouth discussions
and downgrade children in their faces.
And it's not right.
And that's why I'm being tough on you,
because these kids are suffering because of this.
You have every reason to doubt.
But you defied your own doubt!
You did it!
Make your bed,
lie in it!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yes, Your Honor.
And the way you two are going at it right now,
I can see neither one of you is done with the other one,
so I don't want to see you in here again
going through this again.
I'm ready for the results. Ron?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Yes, Your Honor.
Thank you.
We have two results.
These results were prepared by DNA Diagnostics and they read as follows.
The first result relates to
three-year-old Reney.
In the case of Martinez v. Hernandez,
as it pertains to three-year-old Reney Hernandez,
Mr. Hernandez,
you
are his father.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Moving on.
In this particular case,
your doubt was really about the fact that
she had this one-night stand with a person you knew.
Yes, Your Honor.
In the case of Martinez vs. Hernandez,
when it comes to four-year-old Richard Hernandez II,
it has been determined by this court...
When it comes to four-year-old Richard Hernandez II,
it has been determined by this court,
Mr. Hernandez, you...
...are his father.
So you are the legal father
and the biological father.
LILLIE: Like I said.
Of both boys.
So can you step up now?
I can.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
I will.
What I've heard in this courtroom through this testimony
as to what has been said and what has transpired
in front of these children is shameful. It's deplorable.
It's not right.
You've all got to end this.
Because now you've brought two lives into the world.
Look at them.
And you all on this immature nonsense?
And they trying to grow up
and be healthy, happy children?
And you all poisoning their minds?
You don't give grown folks' nonsense to kids.
We have counseling for both of you.
I want you to take advantage of it.
Be honest.
I will give you this, Ms. Martinez,
you have come in here and said a whole bunch of stuff
that a lot of women would not have admitted to.
And Mr. Hernandez, we've had to get down
to the bottom of your need to please this woman
and your need to have her in your life.
As you can see,
that can go in the wrong direction.
Somehow you wanted her so desperately
you ended up short-changing two children that are yours!
That don't come out right.
Straighten that out.
Get a good path
to a healthy future for the children. All right?
We wish you the very, very best of luck.
LILLIE: Thank you.
Court is adjourned.
(BANGS GAVEL)
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