♪[music]♪
- [Tanja] Hi, Tanja here and welcome to TMJ TV, a weekly video series aimed at
real estate leaders that would love more time to grow their people and their
business. Did you know that leaders spend up to 80% of their time navigating the
people, performance, and productivity issues within the business.
Now this means their focus is off recruiting for results, delivering
strategies for success, and gaining the market share that they desire .
I would love to help. Every single week, I'm going to share insights and free
downloadable tools to help you and your people achieve your success in the least
amount of time. I hope you enjoy this next episode of TMJ TV.
♪[music]♪
- Hi, Tanja here and welcome to TMJ TV, a weekly video series for real estate
leaders and teams that want to grow themselves and the business in the least
amount of time. And my next guest has been in the industry for 17 years.
He has been nominated and won the REB Thought Leader of the Year for 2016,
and Starr Partners who he is the CEO of, also won the Innovator of the Year for
2013, 2014, and 2015. It is my absolute pleasure to sit with Douglas Driscoll who
I now can call Doug.
- [Doug] Yes.
- We go way back.
- We do or about half an hour ago. We're good friends now.
- We are. So Doug thank you so much for joining me here at the beautiful venue
because we've just done our training for about 120 of your team being all about
each rapport that opens more doors. That was fun. Thanks.
- No, thank you. It was fantastic.
- My pleasure. So we're here to talk about all things leadership.
And I want to start by, you know because you're the CEO of Starr Partners.
You have 250 people in your business, 30 officers . How many principals?
- If you include multiple principals, it's about 48.
- Forty-eight. Okay, great. So a significant team and a lot of leaders.
First of all, I want to hear from you what is your definition of leadership?
- Well, there's many definitions of leadership, but I suppose the simplistic
form for me is when you have a vision and you execute that vision.
And I think also it's about leading by example quite frankly. But certainly,
it's about having a plan and obviously, bringing other people along with you on
that journey to execute that plan.
- So how do you do that? You have a team of 250 people, 40 odd leaders because
there's different opinions, different perceptions, different styles.
If you've got one vision to achieve, how do you as the CEO which I like to call the
chief energy officer not just chief executive officer, how do you have
everyone kind of focus on the same vision and executing that?
- I think firstly, it's a matter of clarity. You're going to be very,
very clear in terms of what you want to achieve. I think secondary to that is
around buy in. It's very important to consult with people. And ensure there's a
collaborative process because otherwise it just becomes very sort of Draconian.
People don't like being told what to do. So if you could involve them from that
process its very infancy on the cent then you're going to get that buy in that much
greater from day one.
- And then they own it themselves.
- Absolutely, it's ownership. Absolutely, it's not buy in, it's ownership .
I couldn't agree more.
- So you've had 17 years in the industry mostly in the U. K. ,
and then you decided to follow your heart to Australia. Why there?
I'm keen to know what had you go from working in the industry in the U.K.
to Australia? And what had you found be the key differences around leadership in
the industry from different places?
- It's a good question. So starting the first part is the expression I always use
is my ladder was leaned against the wall, and I'm climbing that ladder ,
but it was leaned against the wrong wall. And I just kind of...
- What does that mean? What's the wrong wall?
- The wrong wall for me is that I was good in what I did in U.K.
I was exceeding, I was excelling, I was climbing the ladder so to speak,
but I wasn't passionate about what I was doing. I was kind of going for the
motions. I was in autopilot, and it's very difficult to shake that up,
and I know I needed a change, and I don't think you're going to get greater change
than moving to other side of the world.
- Yeah, but that's out there. So what did…I want to know what inspired that?
How do you go from "I feel like I'm climbing a ladder that's leaning against
the wall. I now have a fire in my bellies." when you were talking before we
were recording but why Australia? Was it just intuitive or did you hear good things
or you just kind of closed your eyes, and spun a globe, and went there?
- It wasn't far from that to be honest. Look, I'm, by nature, a risk taker,
okay. I believe that you have to roll the dice. If you want to achieve anything in
life, you do have to take the odd risk . It doesn't mean I go to the casino and set
in line, and put my life savings in black by the way. They are calculated risk.
But for me I can't afford, "Well, what's the worst that can happen?" I assessed
that quite analytically. I look at it, "Well, when it doesn't work out,
then I can always move back again."
So I really wanted to give it ago. I really want to challenge myself first and
foremost because again I could have move to a different company.
I could have to move to another city within the U. K. , but I probably wouldn't
have that sense of challenge. And when you give up and perhaps abandon everything you
know, and all those kind of habits and all those creature comforts,
and you go out on your own to a place where you don't anybody or you don't know
anything, and they don't know you by the way I don't think you're going to find a
bigger challenge than that.
- And so you came here to Australia, you didn't know anybody.
- I knew one person, one person. And [inaudible] you know a friend from school,
and that was about it.
- That's amazing. And do you think those qualities of taking a risk and backing
yourself and putting yourself in a foreign environment where you're either going to
sink or swim good attributes for effective leadership?
- I think so.
- And what does that taught you going along the way?
- Well, I think the first thing is in terms of taking a risk, you've almost got
to take a risk to step up to becoming a leader, because that in itself is a big
responsibility, and if you actually understand the size and scale of that
responsibility you realize that other people will look up to you.
Other people around your auspices and you could make or break people's careers
and/or lives. So it's a massive responsibility. So that itself is a big,
big risk. So for me, I had to get it right, really had to get it right.
And the term you use is back yourself. More from the always back myself because
it's self-belief. It's not arrogance, it's self-belief.
- There is a difference, isn't it?
- Massive difference.
- What would you say the difference is between and you're a leader of leaders,
right. Forty odd leaders because I think this is a very important thing.
What is the difference for you Doug between backing yourself and Terry one of
your team members today in the training said, "You got to own it." And we talked
about the difference between owning and being arrogant. What is the difference for
you inside of leadership and what are the impacts of both?
- I think it probably starts with self-awareness. You got to know what you
can do, and perhaps what you can't do. You got to really recognize where you excel
and where your limitations are. So I'm not someone who prefers to know it all.
I mean, you said chief energy officer, so I think it's chief everything officer to
some extent, but that doesn't mean that I need to know everything as such,
but I have kind of basic grasp and understanding.
So I think there's a massive chasm if you like between self-belief and arrogance.
As somebody who's arrogant thinks like I can walk on water. Somebody who has belief
in themselves, and that sense of self-awareness is someone that does know
their limitations. And will continue to work through them and look to improve
themselves to become a more rounded professional.
- And in your career, Doug, working under leaders, have you had the experience of
working leaders who were arrogant and then leaders who have self-belief,
and what was your experience like?
- I've been lucky or I'm lucky enough to work with a number of leaders,
and again I've always studied them. I'm quite an analytical person bordering to a
morphological in that respect. So I've always kind of had bold ambition,
aspirations to become a leader myself. So literally from day dock I was always
looking at the people above me, and garnering information and looking to
learn. So yes, I've had had arrogant leaders who are very much about
themselves. And again, I use that term leader very loosely because they are not
really leaders. Really, they're about looking after, number one, themselves.
And then I have had other people who've imparted such wisdom on me,
and I've learned all those from. So I've kind of seen both sides,
and everything in between.
- Yeah. So that's good because you've had two different experiences,
and you've been able to decipher and decide which flavor you prefer,
and what feels more innate to you. So you've not only been a leader of people,
but you've been a leader of innovation, and that's been recognized from an
industry perspective with the real estate business awards for,
you won innovator of the year of '13, '14, and '15. And I know that this is something
very dear to your heart, tell us about what innovation in leadership means for
you, and why it's important in real estate? Because it is an industry that's
facing disruption. You hear that word being thrown around like Uber and AirBnB.
Why is innovation important in real estate?
- I guess one of my fears for our industry is that you know we have a reluctance to
change, and I think for me the analogy I always use is that of the boiling frog.
Now for those people who don't know the background or the science there.
If you have a boiling pot of water , and you drop a frog into it,
a frog will jump out pretty damn quickly. Whereas if you sit that frog in the water,
and then turn up the heat and then obviously, you gradually boil the water,
it will sit there and it will basically die.
And I look at our industry as just that. We are kind of the boiling frog at the
moment, and I have a fear around that. And I think we worry about disruption,
but disruption is inevitable. It's going to happen whether we care to accept it or
not. So we might as well be at the forefront of that, and actually as you
said earlier, disrupt ourselves opposed to waiting for someone else to come and then
do it. My sincerest fear however is the disintermediation because disruption is
one thing, disintermediation is something altogether.
- And what do you mean by disintermediation?
- Disintermediation is where essentially you cut out the middle man.
So unless we improve what we do, okay.
- You're not going to irrelevant anymore.
- And demonstrate value because everyone knows that in the absence of value,
price becomes a consideration . So I think we really need to heap on that value.
Have a very basic grasp of understanding of what we do and how we do it.
Then we need to be able to articulate it to people because that's issue at the
moment, you know feeds are tumbling across the country that's because actually we
don't demonstrate to consumers, and we got a number of these new players coming into
our marketplace. I quite welcome these guys because they actually give us a bit
of shake up.
- Yeah. Gives us honest frogs.
- It does, but you know what we can do? We can do one of two things.
We can sit there where you sling mud in their direction, or we can go,
"Geez, this is kick out of the backside that we need as an industry." I would
rather take the second approach.
- So what I can here there is something that I like to share which is that we can
play in two circles. Our circle of concern talking about all the things outside of
our control which gives us access to making excuses or our circle of influence
which is, "Okay, that's happening, and cool. How can we make a difference
increase our value and articulate that value?" which is what you are alluding to.
Like acknowledge it's happening, but don't lose sight of your own backyard and who's
playing in your backyard and get their focus here.
So you talked about we need to increase our value, and increase our
ability to articulate our value so we're not having price reduction kind of
conversations. What are three ways that you would say Doug that we as an industry
especially in the sales component could increase our value to be more relevant to
the consumer?
- Well, I think the first one is demonstrable proof . Okay, so they say
that our people lie, but numbers don't, and I think that if you have the ability
to demonstrate to potential vendor that you will extract or extrapolate a high
price. The next agency or the disruptor maybe I think that's pretty powerful
stuff. I think the second is around customer experience.
In fact, only an hour ago you were doing training,
you know, obviously, I was listening attentively to the whole thing,
but in particular, it was one thing you said about having your ears perking out.
And that was around designing the customer experience around the customer themselves.
And when I say it seems pretty obvious, but probably 8 or 10 agents don't actually
do that. There's an old saying in business ask a customer what they want,
and actually then give it to them. So again, designing a custom made experience
is everything. It's very much dialogue, not monologue. It's kind of,
the term you used earlier not saying, but it's actually a listing presentation,
listing consultation, and that's what it is . It's a collaborative effort.
And I think the third most important thing is around actually so it's not just
walking your walk, but talking your talk as well, and showing that you actually
back it up. And obviously when you've done, clearly you're going to have raving
fans. You're going to have advocates who are going to do your job for you.
So one of the metrics I always look at within any real estate business is what
percentage of inbound inquiries coming for as a result of repeat business and
refilled business. So I think if you can do those three things,
I think you're well in the way to success.
- I agree and I think inside of leadership, if you're not walking your
talk, it's very hard to inspire your people to be congruent and do the same,
- Absolutely.
and we were talking off here before about, and something that I'm really passionate
about is you don't believe the message unless you believe the messenger.
- Yeah, absolutely.
- So what is your message, you know as a key leader of influence who's a thought
leader for three years, has been acknowledged for the innovation you've
been bringing to the industry. I know, again, we talked off here about some
things that you're really passionate about and the gender equality and 53% of your
employees are women, and you're keen to explore more women in leadership ranks.
If we don't believe the message unless we believe the messenger,
as a leader what is one of your biggest messages around leadership for our
industry? We're lucky if this were your soap box, what would you say is something
that you feel is really important to either elevating the consumers' experience
or elevating the state of leadership that's facing disruption.
- I believe that we need to get to know the consumer better, it really as simple
as that. You know, we've talked about innovation today. Normally,
innovation is around sort of technology and IT in the digital space,
but actually I think it's as simple as getting back to basics.
- Yeah, music to my ears.
- You know, and I look at the customer experience. Now, I'm somebody who
understands difference in customer experience and customer service.
- And what is the difference?
- Good example, we sat in a restaurant, okay? so, customer service would be maybe
the waiter coming up in a timely manner, asking what we like to drink,
being polite, friendly, making a couple of recommendations on the menu, and such.
Customer experience, however, goes that much deeper. So it's about the ambiance of
the restaurant. What's the background music like? Is it light volume?
And maybe they recommending a wine to go with the meat or the fish.
- So it's full sensory rather than…
- Full sensory.
- …one direction.
- Absolutely. And I guess what we do is we kind of deliver customer service based on
what we think it should look like, and going back to what I said earlier,
it should be delivered based on what they want it to look like.
- So you're saying, Doug, one of the things you think is really important for
us to focus on not only as leaders, but as an industry is elevating the client
experience. We get a bit distracted around this thing of innovation and
technology and you know making things more instant than instant coffee,
yet you're saying,
"I think we need to get back to basics, I think we need to elevate the customer or
client experience." I couldn't agree with you more, and our friends our CoreLogic
who we've partnered around the whole real estate of leadership have demonstrated
through perception of buyer and vendors experience that from the moment they
engage with a real estate agent through the transaction, they confidence drops by
47%, and I believe we're missing those moments of matching our behavior and our
interaction with the consumer at those peak emotional times of starting the
authority, the first OFI, the contract, and then coming into the home.
What do you want to say about that? Because I think we're on the same page
here at first elevating the client experience as being the number one message
you want to get to the industry, what do you believe we need to do?
- The first thing we're doing actually, and you touched upon this is actually
utilizing the research because I think again I use the word or term awareness a
few times today, but if we're not aware or conscious that actually what we're
delivering is not up to par or up to standards then that's the first place
we're going to fall. So actually having kind of education around that.
So we ourselves have utilized some of the CoreLogic data, and we'll continue to do
so. And then conduct our own research of course to really highlight and emphasize
the level and scale of the issue or the problem. And then obviously ensuring that
people will do stick to what they're supposed to do.
- How do you do that as a leader? When you've got a team of 250 people,
how do you ensure that your people do what you say is important
for the client experience?
- There's KPIs, and there's accountability a bit around that. So there's the obvious
stuff around that promoters call but here are various nuances, but I…
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