Please be seated.
JEROME: Hello, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: Hello.
This case of Patrick v. Pence.
Thank you Jerome. Good day everyone.
AUDIENCE: Good day.
Mr. Patrick, you say, five years ago.
You made a huge mistake by opening your doors to a stranger
who needed a place to stay.
Because that man betrayed you.
And slept with your girlfriend Ms. Pence.
Today, you're here to prove that you didn't father
Pence's fraternal twins.
Four year old, Larry and Carrie
and the other man did.
Is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Pence, you are certain Mr. Patrick
is the father and claimed, the DNA test will prove it.
Is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor.
So, Mr. Patrick, take me back to how you found she cheated.
We had wanted to purchase another home.
We met the gentleman.
We befriended him, let him move into our home.
He offered to pay.
Help pay the bills and stuffs.
JUDGE LAKE: So, you basically took in a person
that was gonna rent a room.
Yeah, basically, yeah.
Okay.
Well, he stayed maybe, five or six days.
And he had to move out.
And I questioned, "I wonder why he just up and left."
Is it because me and you argue a lot...
Okay...
You know, time goes on.
Me and her sat around and had a few drinks.
Sitting at home enjoying ourselves.
And she up and leaves and goes across the street to the neighbors.
Ten thirty runs around. No Ms. Pence.
Two, three o'clock comes around in the morning, still no Ms. Pence.
When she does is show up until the next day
about 10:30 in the morning.
Really?
Her hair is a wreck.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHING)
You know, she...
Look like she went through a hurricane or something.
JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Pence, you got missing overnight?
PENCE: I did, Your Honor.
Why was she gone all night?
You know, I mean... What'd you do?
And what was her response?
She was talking in circles.
I confessed, Your Honor, at that time.
JUDGE LAKE: What did you tell him, Ms. Pence?
I had told him that I had slept with the gentleman
that had been staying with us.
(AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS)
It was just that one time. It never happen again after that.
And... He still seems to believe that it happened
more than that one time, Your Honor.
So, you hadn't slept with him
when he was actually living there?
PENCE: No, Your Honor.
Wait, did you go looking for him or did you run into him?
I kind of went looking for him, uh...
Larry had continuously from day one...
Accused me of cheating constantly. I...
Mr. Patrick?
Yes, Mr. Patrick.
I had never slept with anyone else
before that night. I had constantly...
You're so flirtatious.
I was...
That's how I was brought up.
I'm constantly calling people, honey and babe.
That's just... I'm from the South.
That's how I was raised.
It has nothing to do with that
I've never slept with anyone before that.
Never, you constantly accuse me of it.
And I kept telling you. You're gonna keep pushing and keep pushing
and it's gonna happen.
That night it happened.
That was the only time and it's never happen since then.
The gentleman that just left your house in five, six days.
Says, he's gonna move in, help pay bills.
Rent a room, then he leaves.
Just... Like that.
Do you know why he left?
No, Your Honor, I don't.
Now, I get a good idea.
Why do you think he left?
PATRICK: I believe that they were...
Starting to catch feelings for one another or whatever.
PENCE: That's not true Mr. Patrick.
Little bit too close for comfort.
I think that's why...
That's not true.
I think he was worried about me catching on to it.
JUDGE LAKE: Do you know where to find him if he is the father?
No, Your Honor, I don't, I never spoke with the guy after that night.
Never kept in touch with him after that night?
No, Your Honor.
I couldn't tell you where he is, right now.
So, I have another question, why that guy?
You say, you left the house.
And you said, "I went looking for him.
"And I told him if he kept pushing me and kept saying...
"I was cheating, then it's gonna happen and it did that night."
Why that guy? It seems like you went out looking for him.
There was no specific reason as to why that guy.
It was just someone at that time that was around and it happened.
But he wasn't around. He had left the house.
He had Your Honor. I was with my...
Neighbor, like I had stated earlier, um...
Me and her had went out.
I did kinda look for him.
I guess you could say a little.
Um, met him...
You found him, didn't you?
I ended up having the one night stand.
And nothing happened...
After that night, Your Honor, nothing.
JUDGE LAKE: And so...
It was probably the biggest mistake that I've ever made in my life.
And I wish that I had never made that mistake.
It shouldn't never happen at all.
It should have never happen but it did.
And I can't go back and change that.
It's done and it's over with. I just want...
I want some closure today, so, I don't have to continue to deal with the arguments and...
And you constantly saying, that I'm cheating and everything.
How soon after that night...
Did you find out you were pregnant?
PENCE: May I...
JUDGE LAKE: You brought an exhibit?
Yes, a calendar...
Please step over to it and explain this.
On November 2nd, Your Honor,
is the date that me and Mr. Patrick had sex.
And then on August 7th,
is the date, that the twins were born.
That don't mean... That's a five day window.
It does.
The doctor had said that the twins were conceived
right around the 2nd of November Your Honor.
The twins were born almost completely full term.
And if you count those dates back. It only leads to Mr. Patrick.
JUDGE LAKE: Mr. Patrick...
Do you agree with those dates. They seem to add up.
No, Your Honor, I don't, I mean it's...
It's a five day window between there.
JUDGE LAKE: A five day window between what?
PATRICK: From the date that she had slept with the other man.
Let's be clear, Ms. Pence which day did you sleep with the other man?
October 29th, was the date that I had slept...
JUDGE LAKE: Oh...
Yeah, we need to have that circle on the calendar as well.
PENCE: I slept with the other gentleman on October 29th.
Um, three, four days later.
So that is just a five day window.
PENCE: It is Your Honor, but I know for a fact
that November 2nd is the date that I conceived.
How can you definitively say, it was November 2nd...
PENCE: The doctor said, that November 2nd
was right around the date that I had conceived.
JUDGE LAKE: They gave you a date or a window?
It was a window of a couple of days.
And the first couple of days in November.
So, there's no way possible that it could be the other guy.
If it was the first couple of days in November.
How is that possible?
JUDGE LAKE: Well, I mean, it's just because October 29th
is just three days before.
And it's usually estimated...
It is.
...date of conception.
I know that Larry, Mr. Patrick, fathers the twins.
I know that for a fact.
JUDGE LAKE: So, Mr. Patrick, when you look at this exhibit
and you see on October 29th.
If that's the date she had sex with the other gentleman.
That's...that's a hard pill to swallow.
Yes, it is, but it never happened more than that one time.
PATRICK: That you've said.
I know for... It never happened.
So, Mr. Patrick,
you believe this happened more than once?
PATRICK: Oh, yeah.
(INDISTINCT)
And so... And you've requested
that this court administer a lie detector test to Ms. Pence,
because you believe this happened more than once?
PATRICK: Yeah. Yup.
Mr. Patrick, in your court papers
you specified that you also had additional doubts.
And they're specifically around Larry.
What are those doubts?
I think he's ADHD or something like that. You know what I mean?
He's some... He doesn't listen, he's rambunctious.
JUDGE LAKE:He's a little boy,
Mr. Patrick.
PATRICK:I understand he's a little boy.
And I hope he grows out of it someday, but,
I believe he's ADHD...
There's nothing wrong with Larry.
JUDGE LAKE: And so...
Doesn't run in my family.
It doesn't run in her family.
How do you know that it doesn't run in your family?
Well, I've been with you for 10 years.
It doesn't matter. You don't know everything...
Every single thing about your family history.
PATRICK: Yeah, but I'm not a doctor, neither.
PENCE: Exactly.
Well, Mr. Patrick, I'll tell you what, I'm not a doctor,
and Mr. Patrick, you said, you're not a doctor.
That's right.
And that's why this court
has asked a doctor to come here.
Jerome, will you please escort,
uh, Dr. Sarah Vinson into the courtroom.
She is a board certified child and adolescent psychiatrist.
Hello, doctor.
Hi.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Happy to.
Uh, we are, of course, hearing testimony today
concerning beautiful twins Carrie and Larry.
Mr. Patrick, our plaintiff
has indicated that he feels concerned that he believes
one of the children maybe has ADHD, we don't know.
But he says,
"None of these things run in my family."
So the question then becomes...
Are learning disabilities hereditary?
They can be.
But it's a much more complicated picture than that
and that's not the entire story.
So sometimes we can point to one gene,
sometimes it's multiple genes.
And sometimes it's the way that the genes interact with the environment.
And sometimes the genes have nothing to do with it.
And it's just something that happened during the pregnancy,
or during the delivery...
Or in that child's early childhood,
um, that can affect how they learn.
That's interesting, because you're saying,
the gene could be a factor,
but there's also the gene plus the environment component.
Right. And sometimes it's just the environment.
Like with, lead poisoning, for example.
Where the genes had nothing to do with it
and it's things that the child was exposed to later.
JUDGE LAKE: What are the chances that one twin
may have a learning disability
but the other does not?
Twins, if they're fraternal twins
which is this case here?
JUDGE LAKE: Yes, they are.
Um, are no more closely related than any other sibling pair
when it's fraternal twins.
And so you definitely could have one in one child
and not in the other child even though they have the same two parents.
Okay. Thank you so much for your testimonies.
It's been very enlightening.
I'll have Jerome escort you out.
We don't wanna take up too much more of your time.
But thank you doctor for coming.
Thank you.
So, Mr. Patrick, there is...
A chance that it can be passed down through the family.
But, the doctor said, that they're...
Is a chance it has nothing to do with that at all.
So, does that change your opinion
now that you've heard the testimony of the doctor?
It's a possibility. You know what I mean?
It could be passed down.
So what you're saying, what you heard...
Further supports your testimony?
This doubt about the children...
This is what's causing all of the friction in your relationship.
There's no trust.
We've always had arguments over stuff.
PENCE: Yes, but, Your Honor, we haven't...
I guess after all this...
We haven't even been...
Uh, had sex in probably the past four months.
It's... It's just a constant argument
from the time that I get up until the time that I go to bed.
Pretty much, it's constant argument.
Concerning paternity issue?
Paternity and the one night stand
and him saying that it happened more than the one time, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE:And so that's why, Mr. Patrick, you asked this court
for a lie detector test
because you don't believe Ms. Pence is being truthful with you...
As to the true nature of the relationship
with this other gentleman?
No.
Why do you believe if she came clean that night...
Why do you believe she
wouldn't tell you the whole truth
since she was so forthright?
I... I... I'm not sure...
(INDISTINCT)
I have no reason to hide anything...
I just feel like she's hiding more than...
...at all, Mr. Patrick.
What's she's saying.
There's nothing to hide.
I have nothing.
And just like I've told her if it comes...
To the fact that the kids aren't mine...
Nine times out of ten I'm probably gonna leave.
That's what am afraid of, Your Honor.
And if it does come back,
which I hope it does come back that they are my children
it's still gonna be hard for me to gain trust for her again.
Trust is...
JUDGE LAKE:So the stakes are high.
This is... This is very serious
and your relationship is truly riding on this...
PENCE: Yes, Your Honor.
Result.
PATRICK: Yes, Your Honor.
I mean, like you said, I've...
Been through with everything.
She's had cancer, she's in remission...
Of two years. I went through it all with her.
JUDGE LAKE: Amen.
(SNIFFS)
I went through every bit of it.
PENCE: It was one test to be done and over with.
Your Honor, I want him to get the closure that he needs.
And I promise you if it does come back...
And for me for that
this can be over with...
I'll apologize.
I'm tired of all of the argument and everything.
I just want to get on with our life
and continue to grow and raise our family together.
JUDGE LAKE: Understood.
Like I said, if it does come back,
which I hope they do. I will apologize to you.
(SNIFFLES)
But if not...
I guess someone will have to ponder on for a while
whether I'm gonna continue to stay.
All right. You know, at this point I can understand
where this relationship is at a crossroads.
PENCE: It is.
Because you just don't trust one another.
We're gonna get to the paternity result shortly.
But first, I'd like to
give you the results of the lie detector test you requested.
Well, here goes nothing.
JUDGE LAKE: Jerome...
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(CLEARS THROAT)
This is gonna determine our fate.
I have nothing to lie about, Mr. Patrick
JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Pence, you met with a licensed polygraph examiner?
Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE:You were asked the following questions.
"During the last 10 years of your relationship with Mr. Patrick,
"have you had sexual contact
"with any other man
"other than the man
"whom you admitted to cheating with?"
Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE LAKE: You said, "No."
The lie detector determined
you were being deceptive.
(AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS)
How is that?
Ms. Pence, you were asked,
"Did you have sexual intercourse
"with the man
"whom you cheated
"on Mr. Patrick with
"more than once?"
You said, "No."
The lie detector determined
you were being deceptive.
(AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS)
That's not... Your Honor, that's not possible.
I slept with a guy one time.
I knew it.
One time, Your Honor.
You were cheating behind my back knowing it.
No, Mr. Patrick, I didn't. It was one time.
It never happened other than that time.
It ain't what that paper say.
I don't care what the paper says.
JUDGE LAKE: So...
One night or one time? Let's be specific.
PENCE: It was one night, one time together.
Period, flat out.
The one time only.
Have you ever had a relationship...
Sexual relationship with anyone else besides this person?
No, Your Honor.
Other than Mr. Patrick, no.
Well, these lie detector results certainly were not in your favor.
Um...
Mr. Patrick, after hearing those results what are you thinking?
I... Just did nothing but lie to me last 10 years...
I have not lied to you, Mr. Patrick.
It shows right there...
I don't care what it said. It happened that one time. That was it.
I was nervous with everything that's been going on and...
You know, maybe it could have came out...
Because I was nervous like that.
I've never done it more than the one time, Mr. Patrick.
PATRICK: I don't believe that. You get in my shoes
and I did that to you, how would you feel?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
I would probably be in the same situation.
But I know that I, for a fact, that only did it the one time, Mr. Patrick.
All right.
I think I'm ready for the results. Jerome.
Here you go.
These results were prepared by DNA Diagnostics
and they read as follows.
In the case of Patrick v. Pence,
when it comes to fraternal twins
four-year-old,
Carrie Patrick
and Larry Patrick,
it has been determined by this court...
Mr. Patrick, you...
Are the father.
I told you that you was the father.
I told you.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
(SOBBING)
(INDISTINCT)
(SOBBING)
Are you relieved, Mr. Patrick?
Uh, very much. I know that...
The deception stuff that the lie detector test that's...
Something is gonna have to be worked on
because that's just right there says me, I...
I... May not been able to trust her again.
(SNIFFLES)
The important part of it is as long as them kids belong to me.
I told you that.
That's the important part.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Now that's gonna be a little easier on me
to move on with my life.
And so, even though it has been determined today that
Carrie and Larry are your biological children,
you still are unsure
as to whether or not you're going to be able to continue
in the relationship because of the results of the lie detector test?
Yeah. Because of the trust issue now.
All right.
I mean, it's bad enough I didn't trust her
but after hearing so much deception of her, I mean...
JUDGE LAKE: I mean, let's be honest...
You all have overcome so much.
Why not this if you really make the choice?
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDING)
Right? So...
You know, and Ms. Pence, if there is something
that you just have not said yet.
I think at this point
Mr. Patrick is just looking for the truth.
And, he's stayed with you even after
he found out that this other gentleman could potentially be the father.
PENCE: I... Your Honor...
Is there
anything that you haven't told him at this point.
PATRICK: Yeah, anything.
No. Mr. Patrick knows everything that happened that night.
I went into full detail. Told him everything that happened.
There's nothing else to say.
JUDGE LAKE: Okay.
We've counseling and resources for you all
to hopefully mend this relationship
for yourselves and for the children.
I wish you all the very best of luck.
Court is adjourned.
PENCE: Thanks, Your Honor.
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