Welcome to the channel "AFTER ALL, WHAT ARE WE?"
Sonia is Brazilian but she went through an NDE while living in Russia.
Today she lives in France,
from where she very kindly granted us this interview via skype.
During the NDE, her mother, who had passed away ten years before, mentally told her:
"You've reached the limit ..."
"and it is up to you to choose crossing this limit, and then there is no return ..."
"or coming back while it's time ..."
Let's get to know her story?
Good morning, Sonia.
Good Morning.
Thank you very much for sharing with "AFTER ALL, WHAT ARE WE?" channel
your near-death experience.
We are here inaugurating ... this is the first interview made by Skype ...
You're a Brazilian, you live in France ... you're talking from Paris ...
I'd like you to say ... your full name, your profession or your occupation ...
and then tell us, in whatever detail you think is convenient,
your near-death experience. Thank you.
Okay.
My name is Sonia ... Sonia Turrini Marion ...
I'm 56 years old ... almost 57 ...
I live here in France with my husband and five children ...
and my experience happened in 1995 ...
It's been ... 22 years ...
I was in Russia at the time ...
I was pregnant ... from my fourth son ...
and I was already at the end of my pregnancy.
When I went to the maternity
I went alone in the ambulance ... because at that time, in Russia,
it was absolutely forbidden that any other person
could accompany the mother in the maternity ward.
So, I left my kids with a friend,
my husband was busy with something ...
and I went to the hospital.
but never ... I never thought of the idea that I
was going to go through an experience like that on that day.
My only concern was that the baby should be born normal,
that everything should be right at the time of childbirth ...
and as it was going be my fourth childbirth I was somewhat calm
because I had already gave birth to twins, I had already had my other children and
and everything had so far been normal.
So when I got to the maternity ward, everything happened very quickly,
the baby was born normally, it was a normal birth ...
without anesthesia.
He was born in good health, with no problems at all.
Then,
the nurses took the baby to another place to take care of him.
and began to have a lot of agitation around me.
The medical doctors and the nurses were talking ... talking ...
I could speak enough Russian at the time to communicate ...
but it was not a perfect Russian.
and mainly when they started talking in medical terms
there I really did not understand anything else.
Then, a doctor came up to me and said, "Look, we're going to give you a general anesthesia ..."
"because the whole natural process is blocked ..."
"the placenta ... the whole end ... after the child's birth did not happen as expected."
Then, they gave me a general anesthetic to do what they call ...
In Portuguese I think it's a "curretagem"?
Curettage (curetagem).
Curettage.
and they actually gave me this anesthesia
and then I do not remember anything else ...
the anesthesia ... the sleep ...
and then ... at the same time ... what I remember
before waking up ... before waking up with the medical doctors ...
moving my face ... shaking me a little bit
I remember that I started to understand ...
The problem of explaining an NDE, as everyone says, is finding words ...
is to find means by which they are comprehensible ...
because we use language as a translation ... actually ...
because it's not ... the way we are used to understand our words ...
then, (what happened) it's as if somebody told me, in my mind, "you have to accept."
But I did not hear any voice ...
and I did not know where this message came from...
it was a message I received ...
mentally...: "you have to accept, Sonia, you have to accept."
and at that moment I understood that accepting meant ...
meant something important ...
and I did not want to accept what they were asking me to accept.
even without knowing exactly what it was.
I started a kind of internal struggle with myself ...
about accepting or not accepting what they were asking me to ...
what someone was asking me ... I do not know ...
and at the same time,
when (the request) was repeated for the third time,
I started to lose the strength to fight.
And at that moment I started to feel like a vacuum cleaner ...
sucking me from the legs ...
in the horizontal position ...
and it was sucking me in completely ...
at incredible speed ...
through a corridor ... a kind of corridor ... half corridor, half tunnel ...
and I was ... being sucked ...
and my strength ... to keep me from being taken ... was diminishing.
And at the same time that it was diminishing, I started to listen a kind of music,
not like the music we can hear on the radio ... on a computer or anywhere else ...
it was a music ... inside ... of ... of ... it was mental, everything was mental.
I did not see any image.
I knew I was being sucked ...
I had the total feeling of being sucked ...
but I did not see what was happening ... I did not have any image.
So I knew it was really me being sucked.
It is very hard to explain.
And then this music was calming me down ...
and it was such a beautiful melody, so wonderful ...
that it penetrated my whole being ...
and at that moment I accepted ... that request.
And when I accepted,
I was no longer ... in that travelling state,
I was already in a ... in another plane.
It's as if it were a cloud ...
It was all white ... a very very white ... very beautiful, very beautiful ...
and everything was white,
there was absolutely nothing to see ...
out of that white ... it was white.
I have the impression ... I have the impression that at some point...
you said you did not see ... you were listening... while you were being sucked.
That's it.
How did it change from not seeing to seeing this white ...
Did you see yourself in a tunnel?
(it changed) when I did not fight any more ...
against the idea of ... going, of being taken.
From the moment that song, that melody calmed me down,
penetrated my being,
and it was a melody of incredible, deep and wonderful beauty...
it was over.
I felt sucked because I was fighting against.
Then I felt I was being pulled, sucked ...
And when you accepted the song ... when you accepted the song ...
immediately you started to feel that you could see ...
and the first thing you saw was that white or did you see yourself in a tunnel ...?
No. The tunnel was only during the time I was fighting,
because that message that I had to accept ...
I don't know how to explain it with words but it was like I had to offer myself ...
it's as if I had to turn myself into a total offer ...
in a full acceptance.
And I did not want to because in one way or another
I was already aware that accepting would mean not returning.
This feeling lasted ... it was very quick ... this feeling of being sucked ...
began to diminish as that song ... that melody began to calm me down.
And when I felt totally calm,
and I surrendered myself ... I surrendered ... I accepted ...
then immediately this process of travelling ... of being sucked ... ended
and I saw myself, I found myself in this state of cloud, white, lightness,
of harmony, of peace, of love, of well-being, of tranquility,
of everything that can
of all the adjectives of ... beauty, kindness ...
I can continue making a list but
even so I will not be able to describe that feeling.
And what's more incredible is that I ...
I saw this whole white ...
but I was nowhere to see the white.
I was the white ... I was that light ... I was this ... do you understand?
That is why I say that it is very difficult to explain what we feel at this time ...
because there are no words.
When I say "I saw" ...
when I say that "I saw" it is as if I were somewhere and I saw that light.
But there was no space. I was the light, I was that white ... and I saw.
So it was ...
I was a whole and the whole was one.
Is it understandable?
Look, it's always difficult for us (to understand), but it's very beautiful to hear.
It's something that has no translation ...
we talk using the words that we know, that we understand,
it is our verbiage, it is our means of communication,
but in that state in which I was ...
there was no question, there was no query, there was no before, there was no after,
there was nothing ... I did not remember who I was, where I came from ...
Everything was absolute ... and momentary.
But did not you lose your individuality even if you were part of the whole?
No. I was Sonia, the way I was ...
although I had no more connection with anyone ... with anyone.
Nothing else held me ... back ...
I do not know how to explain, but I had no attachment to anything.
To anything.
I ... I had everything and I had nothing.
I was everything and I was nothing.
It's something ... incredible ...
and a feeling of ... of ...
happiness, of love, of ...
of harmony, of beauty, of peace,
all this very very very very strong...
a ... a ... a very agreeable thing ... really agreeable.
and then, when I was there ...
enjoying that immense beauty,
without seeing anything ... except this light ...
I felt absolutely the presence of my mother who had passed away ...
I think it's been ten years since my mother died ...
and at that moment I knew she was there.
I did not see her.
I did not see anything at all ...
but I was sure, just as I'm seeing you now ...
just as I'm looking at my house ... I was sure that my mother was there ...
and the funny thing is that I had no desire to ask, "Mommy, what are you doing here?"
Nothing.
It was absolutely natural, you know?
I have not seen my mother for so many years ...
I knew very well that she ...
And I also did not question "you're dead .. you're alive ... you're ..."
Nothing.
It was ... it was all evidence ... it was evidence.
And then, at that moment when I felt her presence,
I had a slight impression ...
that there were many other beings ... over there.
but I did not see anything, it was just that sensation ...
of (the presence of) a lot of people...
but without seeing anyone, it was just the sensation.
Were you still seeing that white?
It was white ... it was just white ... white, white, absolutely white ...
and ... at that moment ...
I received...
mentally...
a message from my mother.
She said...
not using words...
I understood what she wanted me to understand.
She said:
"Now, here, you've reached the limit."
"On this limit, you decide. Either you cross and there is no return ..."
"or you come back from here while it's time."
And it was nothing surprising to me,
I did not feel any ...
any feeling like:
"Why? What is going to happen? ..."
Nothing ... it was evidence, absolute evidence ...
then I...
Wasn't it a surprise at all to you?
It was no surprise.
The communication was so clear and obvious ...
that I said, "Oh, I'll go. I'll go through it, I want to cross it."
Because I was already feeling so good there ...
that beyond the limit would certainly be even better.
and then, she... with much love, much calm, much wisdom,
she said, "It is okay. But ... if you cross it... who's going to take care of them?"
Then...
Then I had a ...
How can I explain ...
An insight?
An insight.
Then I said, "Oh .."
She said, "Look back."
but it's not "she said look back" ...
because there was nothing there, there was neither here nor there,
neither in front nor behind,
but it's how I can translate so people understand ...
But at that moment ... until that moment you did not even remember your family, did you?
No, nothing, everything had erased as if I had turned off a button.
Then I looked back ...
and I saw in that vastness of white ...
the shape of a star ... a great star.
It was the only image I saw in the whole experience.
This star had how many points and what was its color?
It was a six-pointed star
and it was ...
there was only the outline of the star,
which looked as if they were a very well ... well ... delicate ... only the outline.
What color?
Color of light.
Of bright light ... a light ... a very bright, very sweet light ...
but that formed the outline.
And at the first point of the star I saw the image of my husband ...
and he was very substantial, how can I say,
really visible as he is,
in this first point of the star.
At the second end I could see my first child
and he was half transparent and kind of ... half substance, he was in between.
then at the other two ends I could see my two twins.
By that time they were ... in 1995, they were almost five years old.
Both were much transparent,
but I still could see their image.
At the other end of the star was my little baby who had just been born ...
and he was practically transparent,
I knew it was him because ... it was ... I knew it was him.
But he was like a jellyfish ... you know ... a transparent and shining jellyfish.
And the other end had no one.
The other end was ... was ...
You mean ... you saw your husband, the oldest son, the twins ...
The two twins on the same end ...
No ... two ends.
Oh, two ends ... oh, I got it ... then you got five.
Yes ... and the little baby.
And the other end was ... was empty.
I only realized long after that...
the empty end certainly represented my son that I came to have afterwards,
because I have five children.
I came to that conclusion much later.
And then ... when I saw ... when I saw this image...
Hah ... there I fell in the real ... there I thought "wow" ...
Just then you remembered your family?
Only then I remembered that ...
"how can I, how can I leave my children my husband ..."
"the little baby who just born ... ", you see?
Then ... I felt my mother as if she had ...
(sound of relief)
because nobody decides, we who have to decide.
At that time she could not decide for me,
but she was so delicate, she was so ...
she had great wisdom.
and then immediately
when I ... when I ... I had the feeling that they depended on me,
I started to be sucked ... by the head.
I was carried by the feet and, on my return, the sensation of being sucked was by the head.
Then I came back ... I came back, I came back, through the same tunnel, the same corridor ...
and then I woke up, with the doctors who were knocking on my face,
trying to...
trying to wake me up.
When I woke up...
it was so ... it was so evident to me that I had lived that moment,
that it was not a dream, it was a ...
it was very, very real.
then...
they took care of, they took me to the room ...
and as in Russia, back then ... they ...
at that time they had just come out of the communist system, that hard system ...
In what year did this happen?
1995.
So, I did not ask anything and I never received a report from the doctors ...
to tell me if something serious had happened ... or not,
or if it had only been the effect of anesthesia ...
if I...
if I had a cardiac arrest ...
I do not know, they did not give me (a report), I wasn't able to ask ...
I could not have a ...
I never had a medical report so I could know what happened to me.
I just know that when I woke up they were all pretty agitated
to make me ... return to consciousness.
That's it.
It's a pretty impressive story.
Pretty, really cool ...
and it converges with many things that we hear about.
One of the questions that comes to mind is:
When you thought of your family...
well, there is one person who was interviewed who commented that ...
the longing she felt ...
of her husband and hermother ...
it was a longing ... it was a mild nostalgia ...
like the longing you have for a person you care about but you have not seen for ten years.
Did you feel somehow this smoothing of this feeling of longing?
Or didn't you even miss them when you remembered the family?
No, no, no. I turned it off completely.
It's as if my life had been completely stopped.
If my mother had not shown me the image of my husband and my children,
I would not have had another second of doubt that I wanted to go there,
that I wanted to cross that line,
because I didn't feel any connection to the world anymore.
Okay, but at the moment your mother spoke and you saw the star ...
somehow was there a feeling of homesickness, love for them,
or was it a more rational thing?
It was a sense of responsibility towards them.
That's what brought me back.
Neither longing nor love ...
Nothing. It was ... (sigh)
Wow ... I have not finished my responsibility as a mother.
Did you see your body before you were in that dark environment?
when you felt sucked and out of body ...
and you heard that voice saying that you had to accept ...?
Have you ever seen your body neither leaving nor returning?
No, no ... I was ...
I was anesthetized ... I slept ... and I already felt myself in that ... in that tunnel ... in that tunnel.
I cut completely with the physical world, if we can say like that.
You talk about a tunnel but you did not see the end of the tunnel ... was it just a dark place and when you ...
It was a corridor ...
It was white ... it was white both sides.
White?
But you said it was only dark ...
The end of that corridor was brighter.
But it was already bright ... I felt a clarity ...
a white passing ...
You know when we're in a train and they are passing by ... like this ...
Okay.
those images ... it was already white at my side.
I did not see myself ... but I could feel the white ...
and that white was increasing, increasing, increasing, increasing ...
until I got into it ... and it was over.
One thing I did not really understand is this ...
I had understood that you were in a place where you saw nothing, everything was dark,
and that when you stopped resisting you saw that white.
But now you're putting in more information ... which may refer to a moment of transition ... I do not know ...
between the moment it was all dark
and the moment when everything was white ... how is that?
I did not have that dark feeling ... in no time ...
No, I did not have that dark feeling.
I was in the tunnel ... and this tunnel was already ...
When I felt myself being sucked, it was as if I were being ... from the table where I was being operated on,
when the doctors were taking care of me ...
from there ... It was as if I were already going forward, you know?
My feet were going ...
I was being sucked from the feet.
It was as if I were on a very fast train ...
and there are those images that pass by us when we are on the train ...
but they were already white, white on one side and white on the other.
I only saw white, white, white, white, and it was getting whiter ... the further I went, the whiter I saw ...
and I got in...
When I totally accepted, I became part of that white ... total.
So when you said you did not see anything you didn't mean that there wasn't any color.
you couldn't see any shape, is that right?
Yes. Exactly ... exactly ... I did not see the shape of anything.
In no time.
Apart from this star and the image of my children and my husband I saw absolutely nothing.
Not even myself.
When you came back...
what impact did this have on your life?
Did you tell your husband right away?
What was his reception?
How did that change your understanding of life?
As soon as I felt better I asked to call my husband
because at that time we had no cell phone ...
so I asked for the phone, the nurse brought it to me, I called him, I explained the whole situation ...
I cried a lot, I cried a lot because the emotion was too big.
When I started explaining to my husband
I was completely in tears, crying a lot ...
because in fact I was very sad to have left that place ...
I came back ... I came back ... but I came back because of responsibility ...
and...
and I was very sorry for having left that place I had been at.
So, I cried a lot, I cried a lot on the phone...
explaining to him and still feeling ...
I could feel ... I felt those very strong emotions ...
now I feel much less,
but in the first few days, in the first few weeks, I had that sensation still very strong.
And for my husband it was not a surprise,
because both he and I had already studied a lot about life after death ...
my husband is very religious ...
I do not consider myself a religious person ...
but I have a lot ...
I seek spirituality, these things ...
And didn't you consider this a religious experience?
No.
No ... it was not a religious experience.
It was ... it was a ...
When I went to the hospital,
not even for a minute, or for a second, I thought that I could have any problem...
that I was going to suffer, that I was going to die ... do you understand?
When we go to the maternity hospital, the only ...
the only desire is for everything to go well, for the baby to be born with health ... it is only happiness ...
so... to go through that experience was a total surprise, oh yes.
But ... because both I and my husband ...
we knew about it, it was a gift for us.
Was it a confirmation, in a way?
A confirmation ... exactly.
Today your fear ... if it existed before ... about death has been modified?
Completely. I have no fear at all,
I'm ready...
and, really, I'm not afraid, I'm not.
Before I was afraid, yes,
but this fear ended completely.
You said that you felt, lightly, the presence of other beings ...
but she was the only person you really felt.
About these other beings... were they like her or...
whatever is the meaning of "her", in this moment...
I did not see her either. But I had this absolute communication with her.
As for the others, it was as if there was an interference.
With her it was a direct line.
and with the others there was an interference.
I did not see anything...
I felt that she was not alone,
surely she was not alone.
But I did not see and I did not communicate with anyone else.
Did you hear unusual inner sounds?
I mean ... you said you did not hear the voice,
neither inwardly you can define it as being a voice ...
but out of the voice, was there any other kind of thing I could call inner sound?
No. Outside the melody during ... during the tunnel, I heard nothing, absolutely nothing, absolute silence.
Did the melody exist only inside the tunnel?
Inside the tunnel and in my mind.
It was not a music that came from outside,
it was a music that was played in my soul, in my heart, in my being, in my ...
Can you remember the melody?
No ... no, not at all.
It would be fantastic, would not it?
I tried to listen to many melodies but I did not find anything.
But it calmed me down, you know?
When I'm nervous... it would be good to have the chance of hearing it again..
And was it a melody in which you recognized the type of instruments?
No ... no ... no ...
You said you were sucked by the legs and that you returned by the head.
Did you feel the exact moment you returned to the body?
I remember being sucked back...
and I remember doing the reverse way ...
In the tunnel?
till the time I open my eyes and I see the doctors around me,
shaking me, knocking on my face ...
Was the tunnel on the way back similar to the first one?
Exactly.
And was there a music too?
No.
Not on the return.
There was no music.
I remember feeling a terrible weight ...
the more I came back ... that weight ... it seemed my body weighed ... tons ... before I woke up.
That's interesting ... and when you were there you felt lightness?
Absolutely ... like the wind ... like the air ...
there is no weight, there is nothing.
I'm going to ask you a question that crosses the mind of a lot of people.
You've already made it clear that this was a very real experience ...
What gives you the certainty that this was not a dream or a hallucination?
What gives me the certainty is that the moment I woke up ...
when we wake up from a dream we think, "Oh, I dreamed about this, I dreamed about that ..."
and at that time I woke up with the doctors shaking me ...
I ... had the absolute impression that I had just arrived from that place.
Do you understand?
I had just arrived ...
and with a lot ... a lot ... how can I say?
I was not glad I came back.
Got it. So you came back with an immediate memory of your experience?
It's like when you arrive from a trip...
and ... you just arrive.. you arrive from a trip...
Got it.
You know that you've arrived from a trip.
It's interesting that there are people who just begin to remember ... two months later.
the memories begin to come in flashes ... your case is very interesting ... with this immediate memory
It's as if I had entered my home and dropped the bags
Okay, you were out of home and now you're at home.
Exactly.
Your life values ... I believe they have changed ...
even if you have already studied the subject before ...
How can you explain this change?
In life people think ...
"How am I going to prepare myself for after my death ...?"
"What do I have to do so that when I die ..."
"It's going to be like this, it's going to be like that ..."
For me, it is the present moment.
What I live now,
What I live every day, every single minute,
this is what tomorrow is,
this is what is the after,
this is what my eternal life is.
It's no use wanting to get prepared with this or that,
with that religion, with that ... with that ceremony with that ...
condition of ...
of repentance ...
The important thing is to live the moment.
To live it well.
Because...
today...
it's the tomorrow, it's the after, it's the beyond.
That's all ... do you understand?
Because I was educated in a way that I needed to prepare myself ...
prepare myself to die well...
to have no sin ... that thing ...
that fear of ... that fear of what will happen when I lose my physical body ...
and I go to the eternal world, the spiritual world.
So, it was very clear to me that none of this matters.
The most important thing is really the present moment.
Because it is in the present moment that I build my future.
It doesn't matter ... what has happened, has happened... and tomorrow ... I do not know what I'm going to do tomorrow.
So, it's today, it's now.
That's it.
Did you feel somehow ...
I mean ... you made it clear that you were that white and that white was you ... you were the whole ...
Let me ask you more or less the same question in another way ... did you feel connected to the whole universe?
Was there any sense of oneness with the universe?
Not in a way I could detail ...
I've seen other testimonials from people who had an incredible connection with everything ...
No ... not like that.
but I knew ...
I knew I was ...
that I was part of that absolute white ...
and that at the same time
I was nothing.
They were two opposites.
But without details.
Got it.
Tell me about the time and space where you were.
It's complicated because you do not have the time and space ...
for example, when I was there, when I felt that white ...
I knew it was me,
I knew ... it was Sonia who was there ...
but I did not see myself...
I did not touch myself ...
but I was fully aware that I was there...
I was fully aware that my mother was there ...
and she told me
but she had no voice ... no communication ... I did not open my mouth ...
when I was talking to her.
When she told me "look back,"
this "look back", which I translate in this way,
it did not have the action of looking back, do you understand?
It was all ... it was all mental, it was all without image, it was all ...
I did not look back, actually.
It is very complicated to put time and space
because when she told me about that line, I did not see any line in front of me.
Where was that line?
but she made it clear to me that if I went beyond that limit ...
but there was no ...
I did not see anything...
That's why it's hard to explain ... to speak.
But at the same time there is a time because I felt a progression in your let's say ...
dialogue with your mother.
There was a moment when she explained, there was a moment when you saw the star
and there was a moment when you came back ...
then there is no time and it exists at the same time.
Exactly.
And how long did it last?
I do not know.
For how long I I was numb?
I do not know.
I could have asked the doctors, but it was a difficult circumstance ...
Did it last all the time I was numb?
Or was it a lapse of time? I do not know.
Today what do you think of this NDE that you had, in a summarized way?
And in what way do you understand the whole?
I mean ... your life today is inserted in a whole ... what is this whole?
How do you see the general plan of all this?
What I feel is that we are all interconnected to one another ...
In the human body, for example, if I squeeze my finger here, my whole body knows I've squeezed my finger.
If I cut myself, my whole body will feel it.
So, I think humans and the universe ... and everything ...
It is as if the human body were a microcosms of the total cosmos.
So whatever I do to a person or whatever a person does to me ...
it has the same ... it has the same result as if I cut my finger or if I break my leg ...
for me.
What I do to someone or what someone does to me ...
has the same consequence as when I do to myself.
Even though we do not feel it,
by doing something to someone or receiving ...
be a good thing ... or bad ... or indifferent,
all this is interconnected.
And we receive the influence of both good and bad things ...
from the moment that giving and receiving between people is poorly done.
Because from the moment that everything works well, it is wonderful,
the body is in good health, the body is well.
But when I get hurt,
the whole body will feel.
When we have a little bruise all the time we are feeling it.
Or, if I'm okay, if I'm pretty,
if I'm well-groomed ... everything is fine, everything is beautiful.
So the whole world has this same relationship that the human being has with himself.
It's more or less what I can see and understand.
To conclude ... I wanted ...
I think people who went through an NDE are people ...
in a way very privileged.
And some of them are aware of that, and some say that.
So in that sense, I wanted to know, at this moment of our planet here,
What message would you like... to leave for everybody?
What would you like people to know?
In a way you've already told this in the last ... the last answer, the last response you gave.
but I wanted with that sense, that is,
you are now talking to people.
What is your message ...
ending our conversation.
My message is that we do not have to complicate our lives.
Life is much simpler than we think.
So as not to complicate ... let's live the moment with great intensity ... and much humility.
Much simplicity.
The more we complicate life, the less we enjoy it.
Because everything is very simple.
And the simplicity of love ...
it is in the simplest things ...
simplest things in life, in nature, in the daily life of human beings,
in the eyes of a child, in a smile, in the animals, in the flowers ... in the coexistence of some with the others...
Why to complicate?
Why to complicate?
Everything is so simple.
That's what I want to say..
As Sonia said,
it is in the present moment that we build the future.
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ring the bell, make comments, click "like", share with your friends...
and if you have any doubt,
or if you went through an NDE and would like to share it with the world,
please write to us.
Our email is
afterallwhatarewe@gmail.com
This is a new frontier of human knowledge.
Let's explore it together?
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