I wondered whether you could perhaps just start off by introducing yourself a bit
about who you are, where you're from and how we've ended up having this
conversation on a rooftop in Cairo at what is it 8am
or something like that? How much time do we have? All the time in the
world we're in Egypt! That is true that is true things seem to run a little
slower and a little faster here at the same time. Yeah it's a true. Well-put.
yeah so my name is Joshua Liberman I am a travel and documentary photographer
and I specialize in culture, religion rituals in mostly in third world and
developing countries but really what I do and what I love and what I am is I
love connecting cultures - I love connecting people, our common human
experience of language and food and music and arts it's what brings us
together and I just love experiencing that so much I love being out in the
world and the camera goes along with me as a sort of casual observer of the
whole experience. You're an American? I am an American I'm based out of Los
Angeles but I work, in the world. What are your first impressions of Egypt
having been here for a few days or longer... I've been here for three days
three days and I'll be here for about three to four weeks total what are the
differences between LA and Cairo?
everything I think yeah just about everything... is there anything which is
remotely similar? Probably not because let me just tell you - the first thing
that hit me is the driving - I mean can we just talk about the driving for a
minute?Because I feared for my life just on the drive here - did you get the hotel
pick up? No I didn't get the hotel pick up. You're lucky... and honestly what surprised
me most about Egypt as far as the driving goes is that uber is big here. Uber
is big I've used uber ever since but that first drive from the airport
was crazy, absolutely crazy - I thought we were gonna take off - not in a good way...
mm-hmm sometimes I like taking off if we're doing like these guys
yeah we got microlights behind us but there were boulders in the road yes and
we were going about 140kph between the boulders, he wasn't wearing a seat
belt I was like... nobody wears seat belts in this city... I kind of feel bad
when I put my seat belt on because I find it's like 'what are you saying 'I can't drive'?
I think that's the western perspective. It's nothing disrespectful
but I will be wearing my seat belt you're right okay if they work other
thing that I don't work just yeah pray... so that's a really interesting thing
because of course in Los Angeles we're obviously known for Hollywood movies and
for television but however we are world famous for our traffic in LA in LA
your world-famous for... as in, there's a lot of it? Oh yes absolutely
apparently the 405 is supposed to be the most congested freeway on earth but
after being in traffic in Cairo I I think... I don't think that's accurate let
me tell you I took I took a ten-mile drive... how long does it take you to
drive 10 miles in a city? Half an hour no not in Los Angeles in Los Angeles we
have we actually have a we when you talk to an Angeleno and somebody asks
someone from out of town asks how long does it take someone you know you
usually say 20 minutes without traffic because with traffic it could
take you an hour and a half to go two miles. Well let me tell you it took me an
hour and a half yesterday to drive from town back to the hotel which which was
about 10 miles which I thought was kind of crazy to be honest but...
back to what about Cairo and about the experience here other than the the
traffic experience although they drive much much differently here if we drove
as aggressively in Los Angeles there would be arrests... but otherwise no
culturally this is a very different experience I mean obviously it's Egypt
versus America its Cairo versus Los Angeles but as a culture its it's very
different you asked me what surprised me most about about the Egyptian culture
and what really struck me was how warm
everyone is... we're staying here in Giza obviously and there is a lot of how
do I put this... there's a lot of street hustle there's a lot of people who want
to take you on tours or want to sell you something
but everyone's so nice about it um there are plenty of places in the world where
that's the cultural reality I mean we are very blessed in the Western world
and it's something I don't think that a lot of Westerners realise unless they've
gotten out in the world is just how blessed we are with simple things like
the number of selections that we have in the grocery store or the amount of free
time or free money that we have. Disposable income leisure time... all of that
granted completely completely we get stressed out by the by the simplest of
things and yet you go... this is coming from an American by the way and
Americans work very hard - Americans only take two weeks off. Europeans we have six
weeks off - true - so that's an even... but then you come you come to a
place like this and people work 16 hours a day seven days a week to just barely
scrape by enough money yeah to feed their families if they're lucky and
you know it's very easy for that to sort of decline into - it could be very easy I
should say for that to decline into something kind of aggressive and it's
not here - everybody's really warm and and you know it's as long as I've learned
that as long as you learn to say no, with a smile on your face and to be kind
yes about it that's it it's the it's understanding the shared humanity that
we have and being kind and compassionate about the interactions
realising that... we all want the same things... that is so important yeah that
is something that that has blown me away I've spent a few days with the Masai
Mara in Tanzania in the Gora Gora and I was I was staying with one of
the Chief's son in a mud hut and we were talking about his children and because I
was fascinated by the culture and the people and just how incredibly different
it was from my own experience and one day I asked him I said what is it that
you want most for your children and he said oh I want an education for them I
want them to be well educated I said why he said because the educated
people here are the most successful and what I really want more than
anything for my children is I want them to live a better life than I did I want
them to be well and happy and I want them to to go forward in their life and
be successful. I stopped and I looked at him and I said you know what I
could ask almost anyone in hometown in my own country what they
want for their children they'd give me exactly the same answer you're
absolutely right we are more the same than we are different and as our shared
humanity and as our life experience is different but our humanity is the same
our day-to-day lives are wildly different depending on culture and
religion and city and you know country but the fundamental driving force of who
we are as a human society that that's that's that's nearly the same yeah I
totally yeah I couldn't agree more it's well put and just on that kind of
subject really if there's anyone watching this who's thinking about maybe
coming to Cairo and maybe they are American would you have anything to say
any kind of not really tips or advice but just any kind of any comments on on
what it's like to be here and maybe a bit of encouragement perhaps if they're
kind of sitting on the fence? If somebody's on the fence my my general
rule of thumb what I tell people if you're on the fence about going anywhere
in the world - buy the plane ticket book the trip and go. There is I don't know
how it is in the UK I don't know how it is in Europe I do know in America there
is a fair amount of misinformation and fear about the world if somebody if and
that's not to say that we're fearful but that's just - we're such a big country and
we're such a big culture you could actually travel your entire life and
never leave the country and just see the states but as a result there's our
worldview is very much tailored by our media
by our news by Facebook by what we see out there so if your friends travel you
tend to see one view of the world if your friends don't travel you see a
remarkably different view of the world. What do your friends back home think
about you going to all these far-flung places for example Egypt I mean I'd love
to hear what kind of feedback you get because personally like my family they
don't think I'm mad but they wouldn't they wouldn't go to the places that I go
to and they do question 'why are you going there?' you know I get that a
lot so what's the reaction from your friends and family back home when you
say oh I'm off to Cairo I'm off to Morocco I'm off to whatever these places
my family my friends are very supportive I've been doing this for almost 20 years
of my life so I think they've learned that while they're concerned about me
they're probably not gonna stop me so um and I've actually created a life
where this is what I do and so they're very supportive about it but yes some of
my friends think I'm crazy for the places I go in the world and again some
of that is that misinformation and some of that is just this is a faraway place
and a very different place and it's something that maybe they can't relate
to I imagine but they're very supportive about it and what you asked
earlier if someone were coming to Cairo or really if if someone's planning a
trip maybe where your friends and family aren't familiar with or your culture
doesn't normally go to - I've spent a lot of time in Cambodia and Indonesia, Tanzania
and you know I met people on this trip that have traveled deep into the into
Peru and Bolivia
go with your heart open and your mind open... leave your
expectations at home don't pack them don't put them in your luggage really
just go - we were talking about earlier I go to a place understanding that I am a
kind of cultural ambassador MA for some people I've been places in the world
where they've never met an American and some places where they've never seen a
white person before yeah have you had pictures taken with you
have you had kids absolutely oh my god yeah even here yesterday I
thought this is kind of weird and it wasn't they recognised me off o YouTube
definitely wasn't that - was just kind of... oh where you from? You're foreign
oh wow can I have your picture and and they they just want a picture and
it's so nice and they were flocking around and taking pictures and that's so
welcoming I think to to make that kind of gesture of 'can I have my picture with
you' that's a really welcoming thing and it makes you feel incredibly happy to be
here. Absolutely when we go into the world and I'm not
saying don't be wise about what you do I'm not saying you know throw yourself
into any experience and be foolhardy you have to be a little streetwise
but you also have to be really open and it's that understanding that that person
who's is you know in your space well they're actually just taking an interest
in you you know you might be the first Westerner that they've met yeah and
that's it that's a really special opportunity for a really amazing
experience and the more of those experiences that we have as individuals
the more we start to see how connected we really are the more we're open to new
cultures new ideas and where we don't - we're not so rigid and you know this
world travel is life changing you hear it over and over it's it's almost I
don't want to say trite but it's it's almost cliche but it truly is you go
back to your own home and your entire worldview has changed. Your
perspective changes you maybe stop taking those things for granted that you
were taking for granted, you appreciate the things that you have back at home
and I think you know like when you travel, the things that you miss are the
things which are quite important to you and you learn about yourself as a person
what's important what kind of places you like. For example, Cairo is a crazy city
it's hectic it's chaotic, right? I've learned something about myself in being
here I've learned that as much as I'm fascinated and happy to be here and to
see it to experience it it's not somewhere I'd want to live, to be
honest like I I wouldn't want to live here - I live abroad I think we both live
abroad but you know I can honestly say that Cairo is not for me in terms of
somewhere to live just because of how busy it is so I've learned that about
myself and that's not to say that it's not a beautiful and and a worthwhile
place to visit because it totally is but you discover things which maybe you
didn't know before. Well that's the thing about travel is you learn things about
other cultures that you didn't know before but you get to learn things about
yourself yeah that you didn't realise. I think it was Mark Twain that
said travel is destructive to essentially, I'm paraphrasing but our
biases our suppositions, our prejudices and it's true it is you can't
you can't go into another culture open open-minded and open-hearted you can't
learn or have these amazing experiences for the people and then go home and
maintain your presuppositions about it you
now have an experience of that culture and experience of those people that that
is so beautiful that it changes you. What did you think of the pyramids? To be
honest that I haven't I mean this is as close as I've been to the pyramids so
what do you think of them looking at them now?
oh the pyramids - I walked up here and saw this and you see them in
pictures and you see them on the internet and you're even gonna see them
in this video and it cannot compare to standing here at sunrise and watching
the sun's first light hit those mountains. I actually came up this morning
and I watched the sunrise from here I was up here at about 5am and I took a
timelapse maybe I'll put that in the video but but um it's it's quite
breathtaking isn't it? This is a magical place and I've got to say that
I've only been in Egypt for three days and I can tell you this is truly a
special place it's an incredibly special people and Egypt is magic
would you come back? Oh in a second in an absolute second
she explained to me she said everyone from California
sounds like they're sitting on a beach it's totally laid-back so so what she
was saying it was your tone of voice and I have to say just to give you a bit of
context guys, I overheard Joshua having a conversation with some Germans
a couple of days ago which is how we ended up here I just came up to you at
breakfast and said would you like to be in my video and thank you for
that - very grateful you said yes but the way you were
speaking it was the way you were speaking, speaking slowly calmly and I
saw you practicing Tai Chi where'd you learn that because that's all related I
think personally like the way you speak the way you present yourself I tend to
ramble I'm kind of like ____ but you're kind of like *calm* how'd you do that
where did you learn that? Oh well that's the martial arts
that's Tai Chi and Kung Fu I've been incredibly fortunate I was talking about
my tribe the people that sort of love and support me and you know even when I
go off and I do these crazy things and my Tai Chi community my my martial arts
community is at the core of that. Where did you learn Kung Fu? I learned it at the
American School of Martial Arts in Burbank California. Ok alright so it's so
that's not very exotic can you just make up an answer that sounds better?
I travelled with a backpack to the Himalayan mountains...
I learned it in a very humble school in Los Angeles
Same fundamental core principles? And it's it's not been tainted at all it's not you
know like, is the core of the Kung Fu still very much still intact
when you learn it in america UK europe as it is from the east? Well again I
got incredibly fortunate I met a martial arts master named Dom Baird who took a
traditional kung fu system that came to us from China and Korea and really
helped like watered and nurtured its roots and the roots of the roots of a
good traditional martial arts is philosophy its culture and it is it the
martial arts is very ritualised you so you know not that it's religious in any
way but it is deeply rooted in philosophy so I again got very
fortunate feel very blessed that I found a school that you know again even though
you say it's not very exotic because oh it's in it it's in Los Angeles so it's
not exotic for me [yeah kind of tongue-in-cheek but yeah] I get that but
but our roots are very multicultural and so by maintaining the tradition by
maintaining those roots again we're sharing humanity
we're learning from other cultures so I've spent the last 20 years with master
Baird learning this deep, rich you know traditionally rooted culture. And just
from a point of personal interest do do you learn meditation, is meditation part
of the Tai Chi, the Kung Fu - is it all kind of related yeah it's all
related what does your meditation look like? It's Chi Gong breathing exercises
okay so it's a coordinated breathing and movement. In for 7 out for 11? Oh so you know a
little bit about it yeah yeah that's at it's basics we teach a count we breathe
in as you rise up and you breathe out as you raise down and then eventually
that that sort of rudimentary counting takes place takes root in feeling I
think all of this is a really... as opposed to thinking.
yeah the whole idea is to you know go from here and to come into here hmm
and that's with any Tai Chi any martial art any meditation
really a lot of our life experiences this yeah gets in our way most of the
time yes - it's an obstacle. A lot of the time yes. Our intellect
beautifully creates this incredible world around us but then when it comes
to us connecting with each other it can tend to get in the way we connect much
better through our hearts than we do through our heads yes I like it
Joshua, thank you so much for talking with me this morning in Cairo Egypt you are
my 'American In Cairo' by the way... lucky me! Lucky you... tell the audience
about your website where they can find more about you look at maybe some photos
you've taken - videos the floor's yours so my website is
so that's my, that's a mixture it's my iPhone photos it's you know sort of the
quirks of where I am and what I'm doing is kind of the behind the scenes - the tao of
photography that's really the core of you know touching that shared humanity
when you say you know travel photography there's a certain
expectation when you say photojournalism there's a certain expectation I really
love to tell the stories of our shared human experience I think you can
probably tell that. I love the uplifting stories - I don't work well in
war zones I'm too empathetic and compassionate for it so it's it's really
about how we how we connect with each other how we connect with ourselves and
how we connect with - you know what's what's higher and greater than us
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