♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>>> HELLO.
I'M RONNIE ELDRIDGE.
WELCOME TO "ELDRIDGE & COMPANY."
I WANT TO DISCUSS AGING IN
AMERICA TODAY, AND I WANT TO
INTRODUCE YOU TO THE RADICAL AGE
MOVEMENT.
IT'S A NATIONAL EFFORT TO BRING
A NEW INTERPRETATION TO THE
LONGER LIVES WE'RE LIVING.
ALICE FISHER, FORMERLY THE
DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY OUTREACH
FOR STATE SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER,
AND STEVE BURGHARDT, PROFESSOR
AT HUNTER COLLEGE'S SCHOOL OF
SOCIAL WORK ARE MY GUESTS TODAY.
WELCOME.
>> THANK YOU.
IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU, AND I
LOVE THIS DISCUSSION.
BILL MAHER SAID THAT AGEISM IS
THE LAST ACCEPTABLE PREJUDICE IN
AMERICA.
IS THAT WHAT HE SAID?
>> YES.
>> AND WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT
THAT, IT IS SO TRUE, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT.
ABSOLUTELY.
>> SO, ALICE, TELL US ABOUT THIS
AND HOW IT ALL CAME ABOUT.
>> I WAS WORKING IN SENATOR
KRUEGER'S OFFICE.
ONE OF THE HATS THAT I WORE, OF
THE MANY --
>> AND YOU ARE A SOCIAL WORKER.
>> I AM A SOCIAL WORKER.
>> WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE.
>> WITH A MASTER'S DEGREE.
SO, ONE OF THE HATS THAT I WORE
WAS TO BE THE GOVERNMENT LIAISON
TO EVERYBODY OVER 65 IN OUR
DISTRICT, WHICH WAS HUGE.
I ALSO, MY SPECIALITY WAS
HOUSING, SO HOUSING AND OLDER
ADULTS WAS AN EXPLOSIVE ISSUE TO
START WITH, BUT IT WAS
EVERYTHING.
IT WAS PROBLEMS WITH HEALTH
CARE, PROBLEMS WITH
TRANSPORTATION, PROBLEMS WITH
GETTING THE FOOD, THE RIGHT
FOODS THAT THEY NEEDED, JUST A
MYRIAD OF THINGS.
AND AFTER A COUPLE OF YEARS, I
STARTED TO WONDER --
>> IT'S ALSO A MIX OF INCOMES.
>> OH --
>> THE EAST SIDE OF MANHATTAN.
>> OH, YEAH, IT'S A HUGE RANGE.
SO, PEOPLE THINK THERE'S NO
POOR STRUGGLING OLD PEOPLE HERE.
ALSO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO IS
LIVING NEXT DOOR TO YOU THAT IS
REALLY STRUGGLING AND REALLY
BARELY GETTING BY, ALL RIGHT?
SO YOU DON'T SEE THAT.
BUT AFTER 2008, SOME OF THAT
COULDN'T BE HIDDEN ANYMORE
BECAUSE PEOPLE LOST SO MUCH
MONEY IN THE DEPRESSION SO THAT
THEIR SUBSIDIARY INCOME
DISAPPEARED AND ALL THEY WERE
LEFT WITH WHAT THEIR SOCIAL
SECURITY, WHICH YOU CANNOT LIVE
ON IN MANHATTAN AND HAVE A REAL
QUALITY OF LIFE. SO,
EVERY DAY I WOULD HELP PEOPLE
WITH SOME OF THE MOST HORRIFIC
PROBLEMS AND STARTED TO THINK,
WHY? WHY DO ALL THESE PEOPLE
HAVE THESE ALMOST INTRACTIBLE
ISSUES GOING ON?
AND MY COMMUNITY ORGANIZING MIND
ALWAYS CAME BACK TO AGE
PREJUDICE.
THIS IS JUST PREJUDICE AGAINST
OLD PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S WHERE IT STARTED.
I WENT TO A FOCUS GROUP ON
AGING, AND A MAN WHO WAS
PROBABLY- I'M 72 --
IT'S WAS A NUMBER
YEARS AGO, SO IN OUR LATE 60s,
AND HE TOLD A STORY ABOUT GOING
INTO A BAR WITH A FRIEND IN THE
LATE AFTERNOON IN MANHATTAN,
HAVING A COUPLE OF DRINKS AND
TALKING AND THEN WORK ENDED.
IT WAS 5:00, AND ALL OF THESE
YOUNG PEOPLE CAME INTO THE BAR
AND HE DISAPPEARED. HE
COULD NOT GET THE BARTENDER'S
ATTENTION AND WHEN HE
FINALLY DID, THE BARTENDER SAID,
"HEY, OLD MAN, WHAT DO YOU
WANT?"
AND HE SAID, "I WANTED TO JUMP
OVER THE COUNTER AND DECK
HIM." AND WE HAD THIS WHOLE
DISCUSSION ON WHY AND ALL THAT.
AND THEN HE SAID LATER IN THE
CONVERSATION, I DON'T UNDERSTAND
HOW YOU CHANGE A WHOLE
CULTURE. AND MY KNEE
JERK REACTION WAS, WITH A
MOVEMENT, IT'S THE ONLY WAY WE
EVER HAVE CHANGED ANYTHING
CULTURAL IN THIS COUNTRY.
>> RACISM, SEXISM, HOMOPHOBIA-
>> EVERYTHING.
SO, MY NEXT STEP WAS TO GO TO
STEVE AND HAVE A CONVERSATION
ABOUT WHETHER THIS WAS A VIABLE
IDEA.
>> AND HE ALSO HAS A DOCTORATE
IN SOCIAL WORK.
>> RIGHT.
>> YOU'RE A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND YOU TEACH IT?
>> I TEACH IT, AND YOU CAN'T
TEACH IT IF YOU DON'T LIVE IT.
SO, ALICE CAME IN THE DOOR WITH
A COUPLE OF OTHER PEOPLE AND SAT
DOWN AND BEGAN TO EXPLAIN
EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAID.
WELL, I'VE HAD A NUMBER OF
STUDENTS COME AND TALK ABOUT THE
ACTIVITIES THERE ARE INVOLVED IN
THE MOVEMENTS THEY'D LIKE TO
EITHER BUILD OR ARE A PART OF.
WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT VERY DAY,
I WAS RIDING THE TRAIN, AND A
VERY NICE, YOUNG, LATINO MAN GOT
UP AND OFFERED ME HIS SEAT, AND
I WANTED TO KILL HIM.
AND SO, I THOUGHT, WAIT A
SECOND, WHY DO I WANT TO KILL
HIM?
HE'S BEING POLITE.
AND OF COURSE, AS ALICE
EXPLAINED IT, I REALIZED THAT,
OF COURSE, IT WAS MY OWN
INTERNAL AGEISM, MY OWN FEAR OF
WHAT IT MEANS TO BE PERCEIVED AS
OLD THAT LED ME TO SAY I HAVE TO
BECOME INVOLVED IN THIS
MOVEMENT.
SO, WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS
FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.
AND AS YOU SAID, RONNIE, ONE OF
THE THINGS ABOUT THIS IS, YOU
KNOW, AS BILL MAHER SAID, WE
CALL THIS THE POWDER PUFFISM,
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE KIND
OF VIOLENCE THAT YOU SEE
DIRECTED AT PEOPLE OF COLOR.
IT DOESN'T HAVE THE KIND OF
VIOLENCE THAT YOU SEE THAT'S
HAPPENED TOWARDS LGBT FOLKS OR
TOWARDS WOMEN.
IT HAPPENS LIKE A POWDER PUFF,
WHERE IT'S JUST A LITTLE BRIEF,
UH.
IF YOU CALL SOMEBODY AGEIST,
THEY GO, OH, PUFF, PUFF.
YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
AND IT DISAPPEARS.
>> IS THIS BECAUSE WE'RE LIVING
LONGER?
>> THAT'S PART OF IT.
>> HISTORICALLY, WHAT ARE WE
DOING HERE, YOU KNOW?
BECAUSE THE OLDER PEOPLE BECOME
A LOT OF THEM.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM, IS TO
DIFFERENTIATE, RIGHT?
BECAUSE PEOPLE AGE DIFFERENTLY.
>> RIGHT.
IT'S NOT WHAT ARE WE DOING
HERE, IT'S THEM SAYING TO US,
WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?
>> PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT US.
INTERNALLY, AS STEVE WOULD
THINK, I'M NOT OLD.
WHAT AM I DOING HERE?
>> WHY ARE YOU OFFERING ME A
SEAT?
WHY DON'T YOU OFFER IT TO HIM.
>> IT'S A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM.
FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE LOSING A
LOT.
>> OH, YEAH.
WELL, I MEAN, THE DATA ARE REAL
CLEAR.
IF YOU HAVE -- IN NEW YORK, FOR
EXAMPLE, 20% OF NEW YORKERS WHO
ARE OLDER ARE POOR.
20%'S A HUGE NUMBER.
AND THAT SPEAKS TO, WELL, WHY IS
THAT?
WELL, AS ALICE SAID, THE
LEVEL -- SOCIAL SECURITY IS
PRIMARILY WHAT PEOPLE HAVE.
THE AVERAGE SOCIAL SECURITY
PAYMENT IS ABOUT $1,300 TO
$1,500 A MONTH.
WELL, WHOSE RENT IS THAT?
YOU ADD IN -- WELL, PEOPLE THINK
MEDICARE/MEDICAID.
WELL, THE AVERAGE PERSON ON
MEDICARE PAYS OUT OF POCKET
$5,000 TO $8,000.
SO YOU COMBINE WHAT THEY HAVE ON
SOCIAL SECURITY FOR THEIR RENT
AND WHAT THEY HAVE LEFT OVER,
SUDDENLY YOU FIND LARGER AND
LARGER NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
STRUGGLING, WHO PERHAPS NEVER
STRUGGLED BEFORE AND NOW ARE, OR
WHEN IT'S INTENSIFIED BY ISSUES
OF RACE AND CLASS, FIND
THEMSELVES DEEPLY IMPOVERISHED.
SO, IT'S A MOVEMENT WHOSE TIME
HAS COME, BECAUSE AS YOU WERE
SAYING, THE NUMBERS ARE MUCH
LARGER.
AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE STILL
TREAT IT LIKE --
>> IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL.
>> WELL, IT IS A PROBLEM, BUT
WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE DOING
SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
WELL, MOVEMENTS DON'T GET BUILT
BY OTHER PEOPLE DOING IT.
THEY GET BUILT BY ALL OF US
DOING IT.
>> RIGHT.
>> IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME THAT
RENT CONTROL, THE PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN RENT-CONTROLLED HOUSING
MUST BE OF A CERTAIN AGE, AREN'T
THEY?
>> YES, THEY ARE, AND THEY'RE
ALL BEING HARASSED.
>> AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT RENT CONTROL.
>> OH, ABSOLUTELY!
>> AND THAT'S WHY --
>> AND RENT STABILIZED ALSO --
ALL RENT REGULATED HOUSING IS
MOSTLY OCCUPIED BY OLDER ADULTS.
AND THE DEVELOPERS AND THE
LANDLORDS IN THE CITY HAVE GONE
AFTER THEM UNSCRUPULOUSLY
FOR ANYTHING TO TRY TO GET THEM
OUT OF THOSE BUILDINGS.
YOU KNOW, DEVELOPERS BUY
BUILDINGS THAT THEY KNOW ARE
FILLED WITH RENT-CONTROLLED AND
RENT-REGULATED TENANTS WITH THE
IDEA THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET
RID OF THEM.
I MEAN, THAT'S HOW THEY GO IN.
SO, YES, THAT WAS USUALLY FOR ME
AND THE WORK THAT I DID IN THE
SENATOR'S OFFICE, THAT WAS A
HUGE, HUGE ISSUE, BUT THERE ARE
STILL SO MANY OTHER ISSUES.
THE BIGGEST ISSUE BY FAR OVERALL
IS THE WORKFORCE.
>> IT'S ALL OVER.
EVERY SINGLE ISSUE YOU CAN THINK
OF.
IT'S LIKE THE WOMEN'S
MOVEMENT.
I MEAN, I ALWAYS SAID WOMEN HAVE
A SPECIAL INTERPRETATION OF
PUBLIC POLICY OR VISION OF OTHER
PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING A LITTLE
OLDER, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT, YEAH.
>> SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT
EMPLOYMENT.
DO YOU REMEMBER MAGGIE KUHN AND
THE GRAY PANTHERS.
>> RIGHT, OF COURSE.
>> AND SHE BECAME THIS OLD LADY
BECAUSE SHE WAS OBJECTING TO THE
RETIREMENT AGE, RIGHT?
65?
>> 65.
>> AND WE THOUGHT SHE WAS -- SHE
WAS ALWAYS DESCRIBED AS AN OLD,
GRAY-HAIRED WOMAN.
>> RIGHT.
SHE PROBABLY WASN'T AS OLD.
>> IT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.
>> IT IS.
>> IN GETTING A JOB.
>> IT IS.
YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE TOOLS THAT
WE USE IS WHAT DIRECTLY FOR ME,
FROM THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT IS
CONSCIOUSNESS RAISING.
AND WE HAVE ONE OR TWO BIG
CONSCIOUSNESS-RAISING EVENTS A
YEAR WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE, THEY
WIND UP IN GROUPS WITH OTHER
PEOPLE THEY DON'T KNOW JUST TO
TALK ABOUT GETTING OLD AND
AGING.
AND SOMETIMES WE MIGHT HAVE A
QUESTION TO LEAD THEM OFF, BUT
SOMETIMES THEY JUST LEAD OFF
THEMSELVES BECAUSE THE
CONVERSATIONS JUST GROW.
AND I MEAN, WHEN WE HAVE TO TELL
THEM TO STOP, THEY'RE LIKE, OH,
MY GOD.
BUT STEVE AND I HAVE THE
PRIVILEGE OF WALKING AROUND THE
ROOM AND EAVESDROPPING ON THESE
CONVERSATIONS.
AND THE BIGGEST FEAR IS
FINANCIAL, THAT I WILL RUN OUT
OF MONEY BEFORE MY LIFE ENDS.
>> WHAT HAPPENS IS SO MANY
PEOPLE ARE LAID OFF AND THEN
WHEN THEY MAKE AN ATTEMPT
TO GET BACK INTO
THE WORKFORCE, THEY EITHER
CAN'T GET BACK IN -- WE HAVE
MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE ON JOB
INTERVIEWS WHO, NOT UNLIKE WHAT
HAPPENS TO PEOPLE PERCEIVED WITH
PARTICULAR KINDS OF NAMES,
WHETHER IT'S RACIALLY BIASED,
WHEN PEOPLE SEE A PARTICULAR
AGE, THE BIAS IS ALSO APPLIED
WHERE THEY DON'T GET CALLED
BACK.
AND SO, WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY END
UP IN THE WORKFORCE AS EITHER
UNDEREMPLOYED, MAKING A THIRD OR
A HALF OF WHAT THEY ONCE DID, OR
ONLY BEING ABLE TO DO PART-TIME
EMPLOYMENT.
AND AGAIN, IF YOU THINK ABOUT
THE COST OF WHAT IT MEANS TO
LIVE IN ANY PARTICULAR CITY IN
THE UNITED STATES, WHERE NEW
YORK, OF COURSE, IS ONE OF THE
WORST, THEY END UP HAVING TO
REALLY STRUGGLE.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE NEED
FOR FOODSTAMPS, THE NEED FOR ALL
THE COUPON CLIPPING THAT PEOPLE
DO, IT'S A NECESSITY THAT PEOPLE
NOW DO EVERY SINGLE DAY.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE
LOOKING INTO ABOUT THE WORKFORCE
IS EVERYBODY KNOWS THERE'S AGE
DISCRIMINATION.
AND YET, THE ABILITY TO TARGET
ONE PARTICULAR COMPANY DOING ONE
PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, REALLY
FORM OF AGE DISCRIMINATION IS
EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO PIN DOWN.
SO, IT'D BE GREAT IF SOME OF
YOUR LISTENERS, IF THEY HAVE
EXAMPLES --
>> IF THEY'D GONE TO LOOK FOR
A JOB.
>> WHERE WE COULD DEVELOP
THAT CONSISTENT PATTERN.
WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE
WHO WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP WITH
THIS, BUT GETTING A PATTERN AS
OPPOSED TO THIS PERVASIVE SMELL
IN THE AIR THAT EVERYONE KNOWS
IS THERE BUT CAN'T QUITE FIND
WHERE ITS SOURCE IS, IS REALLY
SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO
STRUGGLE WITH --
>> WHAT PEOPLE TELL ME IS THEY
GO TO THE HR, THE HUMAN
RESOURCES, AND THE PERSON
INTERVIEWING THEM,
IF THEY'RE LUCKY ENOUGH TO
GET AN INTERVIEW, BECAUSE A LOT
OF IT IS DONE THROUGH THE
COMPUTER, YOU DON'T SEE THE
PERSON.
YOU JUST THINK OF THE AGE OR THE
GRADUATION, IS GOING TO LOOK AT
THIS OLDER PERSON WHO DOESN'T --
WHO REALLY IN A WAY BECOMES
PATRONIZING, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT.
>> TALKS DOWN TO SOMEBODY OLDER.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT.
OR EVEN IF YOU GO -- BEFORE I
WORKED IN THE SENATOR'S OFFICE,
IT WAS ACTUALLY BEFORE I WOUND
UP AT HUNTER IN THE SOCIAL WORK
SCHOOL, PART OF MY DRIVE WAS
BECAUSE I WAS OUT OF WORK FOR
TWO YEARS AND I WAS TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT, MAYBE IF I GET AN
MSW, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD HELP
ME GET A JOB.
AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF ONE
OF MY FRIENDS WAS ON THE BOARD
OF AN ORGANIZATION THAT I HAD
APPLIED FOR A JOB FOR, AND SHE
GOT ME AN INFORMATIONAL
INTERVIEW WITH THE PERSON THAT
WOULD HAVE HIRED ME, HAD THEY
CHOSEN ME.
I NEVER GOT CALLED IN EVEN FOR
AN INTERVIEW, WHICH WAS MOST
OF THE CASE.
AND I WAS LIKE VERY EXCITED,
BECAUSE, LIKE, HE'S GOING TO
HAVE TO TELL ME.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IT IS ILLEGAL
TO HIRE OR FIRE SOMEBODY BASED
ON AGE.
THAT'S WHY WE CAN'T FIND THE
HARD EVIDENCE, IS BECAUSE IT'S
DONE SO COVERTLY.
AND WHEN I WALKED OUT OF THERE,
I KNEW IT WAS MY AGE.
HE DID EVERYTHING THAT YOU COULD
POSSIBLY THINK OF TO TALK ME OUT
OF WANTING THIS JOB.
I WON'T TAKE THE SALARY.
IT'S A REVOLVING DOOR.
I'M OVERQUALIFIED.
EVERY BUZZ WORD THAT YOU COULD
THINK OF.
AT THE END, I SAID, WOULD YOU
HIRE ME AS A CONSULTANT?
HE SAID, NO PROBLEM, BUT HE
WOULDN'T GIVE ME A JOB.
>> AND THIS RECURRING THEME
HAPPENS AGAIN AND AGAIN.
YOU SAID SOMETHING REALLY
INTERESTING, RONNIE, WHICH IS
THE WHOLE THING ABOUT BEING
PATRONIZED.
THE IDEA OF BEING OLD -- THINK
ABOUT IT.
AS A WOMAN, I MEAN, AS A WOMAN,
AS A PERSON OF COLOR, IF
SOMEBODY WERE TO PATRONIZE AND
CALL YOU GIRL OR TO CALL --
>> YOUNG LADY.
>> YOUNG LADY.
>> OR TO CALL YOU BOY IN TODAY'S
AGE, IT WOULD BE PERCEIVED AS
SOMETHING UNDERSTANDABLY CAUSE
FOR, YOU KNOW, ACTIVE
RESISTANCE.
IF YOU -- WHEN SOMEBODY CALLS
SOMEBODY OLD, OR WHAT THEY ALSO
DO IS THEY'LL CALL US, YOUNG
LADY OR YOUNG MAN, WITH THE IDEA
THAT, SOMEHOW, THERE'S A
CONDESCENSION THAT GOES INTO
THAT THAT UNFORTUNATELY, WE WHO
ARE OLD TOO OFTEN ACCEPT.
WE GO, WELL, THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE
DO, HA, HA, HA.
WE MAKE LIGHT OF WHAT STINGS AND
HURTS, AND THAT'S ON US.
WE HAVE TO STAND, YOU KNOW,
WE HAD A LOT OF LESSONS TO LEARN
FROM THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.
AT ONE POINT IN TIME, BLACK WAS
NOT BEAUTIFUL.
IT WAS IN THE '50s.
WE KNOW THERE WAS A REASON FOR
PEOPLE TO HAVE TO FIGHT.
>> MM-HMM.
>> BUT THE MOVEMENT THAT WAS
BUILT, THE POWER OF BLACK IS
BEAUTIFUL, THE POWER OF BLACK
POWER WAS TO AFFIRM WHO ONE IS,
AS OPPOSED TO FEEL SHAME.
AND WE HAVE A LOT TO LEARN FROM
THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT ABOUT
THAT.
PEOPLE FEEL ASHAMED TO SAY THAT
THEY'RE OLD.
WE TALK ABOUT IT AS MIXED
COMPANY.
IF YOU HAVE MIXED COMPANY WHERE
PEOPLE ARE UNDER 40, PEOPLE
BETWEEN 40 AND 80 ARE
EMBARRASSED TO SAY THEIR AGE.
I'VE HAD TO STRUGGLE WITH THIS.
IT'S STILL SOMETIMES A STRUGGLE
TO SAY I'M PROUD TO BE 72.
HOW MANY PEOPLE SAY THEY'RE
PROUD TO BE THE PARTICULAR AGE
THEY ARE?
>> I USED TO TELL PEOPLE HOW OLD
I WAS BECAUSE THEY WOULD SAY,
OH, YOU DON'T LOOK THAT AGE.
IT WAS A COMPLIMENT, RIGHT?
>> WE WERE JOKING ABOUT IT.
>> NOW I DON'T MENTION IT
ANYMORE.
BUT ANYWAY, EVERYTHING AFFECTS
US -- THE MEDIA.
WHEN A PERSON IS ATTACKED, A
WOMAN IS MUGGED ON THE STREET,
AN ELDERLY WOMAN --
>> 64.
>> RIGHT.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> WHEN YOU READ THIS ALL THE
TIME, DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND?
>> WELL, THE WORLD, THE
INSTITUTIONS OF THE WORLD,
WHETHER IT'S OUR EDUCATIONAL
INSTITUTIONS, OUR HOSPITALS, OUR
GOVERNMENT, DOESN'T REALIZE THAT
THE DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE CHANGED SO
GREATLY.
I LOOKED AT IT AS A SOCIAL
WORKER AS THAT THERE'S A NEW
STAGE IN THE LIFESPAN THAT WE
KNOW IT'S THERE, BUT THEY DON'T
KNOW IT'S THERE, AND THAT IS
WHERE I GOT MYSELF IN TROUBLE.
PEOPLE OVER THE AGE OF 62, 85,
EVEN SOME 90 THAT ARE STILL IN
THE WORKFORCE, ET CETERA,
THEY'RE INVISIBLE.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE USED TO,
OKAY, YOU'RE OVER 65, THAT'S IT,
YOU'RE A SENIOR, YOU'RE ALL THE
SAME, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE.
HOW CAN OVER A SPREAD OF 30
YEARS WE ALL BE THE SAME AND
NEED THE SAME AND WANT THE SAME?
>> AND WE STILL HAVE MANDATORY
RETIREMENT.
>> WELL, THE JUDGES, WHEN -- I
THINK IT WAS LIPPMAN WAS FORCED
TO STEP DOWN, WE WERE ENRAGED!
HE WAS SUCH A GREAT JUDGE.
HOW COULD THEY DO THAT?
>> DAN RATHER --
>> RIGHT.
>> I MEAN, SOMEBODY HIS AGE
AT CBS, I THINK ALSO THEY
DON'T --
>> THERE'S ANOTHER --
>> MAYBE THEY DO BECAUSE SOME OF
THE GUYS ARE REALLY OLD.
>> HE'S BEEN A GREAT EXAMPLE OF
THAT YOU CAN STILL-
>> GET MARGINALIZED.
>> YEAH, BUT HE'S STILL OUT
THERE.
THEY EXPECT US TO SHRINK AWAY
AND BE QUIET.
BUT WHEN I STARTED THIS, I RAN A
PROGRAM FOR THE SENATOR CALLED
SENATOR KRUEGER'S SENIOR
ROUNDTABLE, ALL RIGHT?
WE GOT LIKE 30-35 PEOPLE.
IT WAS A BREAKFAST MEETING, REAL
EARLY IN THE MORNING, SO PEOPLE
HAD TO BE THERE EARLY.
BUT THERE WEREN'T SENIORS MY
AGE.
WE WERE ONLY GETTING THE OLDER
SENIORS.
AND I COULDN'T THINK, WHAT ARE
WE MISSING?
WHERE DO THEY CONGREGATE?
HOW COULD WE GET THEM?
I CHANGED THE NAME FROM SENIOR
ROUNDTABLE TO ROUNDTABLE FOR
BOOMERS AND SENIORS.
WE TRIPLED THE ATTENDANCE AND IT
STAYED THAT WAY, BECAUSE ALL
THESE PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH THEY
WERE OVER 65, THE TOPICS DIDN'T
CHANGE.
NONE OF THEM WANTED TO BE
IDENTIFIED BY THAT WORD --
>> BOOMERS LIKE TO BE CALLED
BOOMERS.
>> THAT'S YOUNGER.
THAT SAYS YOU'RE YOUNGER THAN --
>> EXACTLY, THAN GETTING OLD.
BUT ALSO, THE BOOMERS HAVE TAKEN
CARE OF OLDER PARENTS.
DO THEY REALIZE THEY'RE GOING TO
BE OLD?
>> WELL, TO THAT GROUP THAT I
SAID, WHEN I REALIZED THAT AFTER
THESE MEETINGS, I SAID, OKAY, I
KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN
THIS ROOM THAT MARCHED IN THE
CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE
WOMEN'S MOVEMENT, THE GAY PRIDE
MOVEMENT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND THAT WAS IN THE '60s.
AND WE'RE ALL IN OUR 60s.
AND IF WE DON'T OPEN OUR MOUTHS
THE WAY WE DID THEN NOW, YOU'VE
BEEN TAKING CARE OF YOUR
PARENTS.
WE'RE NEXT.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND THAT WAS MY -- THAT'S HOW
RADICAL BECAME RADICAL AGE
MOVEMENT, BECAUSE WE WERE THE
RADICALS OF THE '60s.
>> THE RADICALS OF THE '60s
SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN THE
RADICAL ACTIONS NOW.
>> RIGHT.
>> BUT THEY'RE NOT INVITED.
>> SO, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, AS
ALICE SAID, THEY'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO FIGHT THIS AND NOT JUST
TAKE THE PART THAT OFTEN NOW IS
BEING DONE.
THERE'S A LOT OF TALKS, A LOT OF
CONFERENCES ON HOW TO BE VITAL
WHEN YOU'RE OLD, HOW TO LIVE
FULLEST IN YOUR LIFE, LIVE YOUR
POTENTIAL NOW, NO MATTER YOUR
AGE, ALL WHICH IS WONDERFUL.
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT,
EXCEPT WHAT ALICE POINTED OUT
AND HELPED ME UNDERSTAND WAS
THERE WERE SO MANY STRUCTURAL
AND CULTURAL BARRIERS THAT
REALLY GOT IN THE WAY OF THAT
VITALITY AND THAT ABILITY TO SEE
THAT AS A POSSIBILITY FOR ALL
OLDER PEOPLE.
WE HAVE -- EVERY SOCIAL
MOVEMENT'S BEEN BUILT ON BOTH
HOPE AND FRUSTRATION OR ANGER.
THE HOPE PART IS I WANT TO BE
VITAL, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO LIVE
FULLY IN MY LIFE.
WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT
THERE'S REASONS THAT ARE
STRUCTURAL AND CULTURAL TO BE
FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY.
THIS IDEA THAT WE SHOULD BE
EMBARRASSED TO BE OLD OR THAT
SOMEBODY CAN, AS YOU SAID,
PATRONIZE TO SOMEBODY ONCE THEY
ADMIT TO BEING A PARTICULAR AGE
OR ARE PERCEIVED TO BE OLDER,
AND THEN THE BARRIERS THAT ALICE
HAS IDENTIFIED AND ALL THE AREAS
OF AGE DISCRIMINATION AT WORK,
THERE'S THE CULTURAL AREA OF
WHAT'S PERCEIVED AS BEAUTY OR
ATTRACTIVENESS OR SEXUALITY.
>> RIGHT.
>> IT'S ALL DEFINED AS BELOW 30.
THE AVERAGE PERSON -- YOU KNOW,
I HAVE TO GO TO A DERMATOLOGIST
FOR A SKIN CONDITION.
THE AVERAGE PERSON IN THE ROOM
TO GET PLASTIC SURGERY WAS A
YOUNG WOMAN IN HER LATE 30s AND
MID-40s.
THE FEAR OF BEING OLDER, BEING
PERCEIVED THAT WRINKLES ARE A
PROBLEM?
WHY IS A WRINKLE A PROBLEM?
BUT OF COURSE, IT'S CONSTRUCTED
THAT IT'S PERCEIVED AS UGLY.
AND FROM UGLY, LET'S DIMINISH
AND IGNORE.
>> RIGHT.
YEAH.
>> DOES WISDOM COME FROM
EXPERIENCE AND AGE?
>> YES.
>> AND DO WE NOT HAVE ENOUGH
RESPECT FOR WISDOM?
>> I WOULD SAY YES.
I WOULD SAY WE DON'T RESPECT IT
THE WAY -- I MEAN, MY
GENERATION, WE WERE TAUGHT TO
NOT ONLY RESPECT OUR ELDERS, BUT
WITHIN OUR FAMILIES, OUR
GRANDPARENTS WERE REVERED.
THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE
GREATEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.
DOESN'T MATTER!
AND EVERYBODY IN THE FAMILY
REVERED THEM.
AND WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE THEM AND
HAVE THEM INVOLVED, AND THAT
DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE.
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYMORE.
>> AND PART OF IT MAY BE OLDER
PEOPLE'S FAULT BECAUSE THEY
BELIEVED, THEY'VE GROWN UP WITH
THE FEELING THAT THEY'RE GOING
TO BE OLD, AND BEING OLD MEANS
RETIRED --
>> RIGHT.
>> -- AND SORT OF OUT OF ALL THE
EXCITEMENT.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT?
SO THEY DON'T KEEP UP WITH
THINGS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT'S, WELL, MAYBE I SHOULD STEP
BACK, RATHER THAN STEP FORWARD,
OR, WELL, NOW IT'S YOUR TURN.
WELL, WE'RE NOT AGAINST YOUNGER
PEOPLE HAVING FULL AND VITAL
LIVES, BEING FULLY EMPLOYED,
EITHER.
IT'S NOT LIKE ONE SHOULD TAKE
AWAY FROM A DIFFERENT GROUP TO
BE ABLE TO GIVE TO US.
I MEAN, THAT'S ONE OF THE
PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE TO
CONFRONT.
I MEAN, THE NEW YORK CITY
BUDGET, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS LESS
THAN 2% --
>> NOT ANYMORE.
HE CHANGED IT.
THE BUDGET WAS FIXED.
WHEN WE FIRST LOOKED AT THE
BUDGET, FOR SENIOR SERVICES,
WHEN SENIORS ARE ALMOST 20% OF
THE POPULATION OF NEW YORK CITY,
THERE IS LESS THAN 1%.
IT WAS LIKE 0.00 SOMETHING
PERCENT OF MONEY WAS GOING TO
SENIOR SERVICES.
AND I KNOW WE WENT INSANE.
AND SO DID A LOT OF OTHER
PEOPLE, WHICH FORCED THEM TO PUT
MORE MONEY IN.
SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE.
>> WELL, IT IS.
>> NOT A LOT.
>> IT IS.
IT'S 2%.
THAT'S SOMETHING TO BE EXCITED
ABOUT.
THERE'S 2% THAT'S APPLIED.
AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT ABOUT WE
SHOULD TAKE FROM CHILDREN'S
SERVICES.
>> NO.
>> PART OF THE STRUGGLE OR ANY
OTHER SERVICE.
PART OF THIS IS THAT THERE'S A
DANCE OF MARGINALITY THAT WE
CALL, WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE THAT
DON'T DO ANYTHING, THEY'RE
STRUCTURALLY, POLITICALLY, THEY
DON'T ADD ANYTHING TO THE
BUDGET, AND PEOPLE ACCEPT VERY
LITTLE, SO THEY BACK OFF AND
SAY, WELL, THANK YOU FOR THE
CRUMB.
AND SO, THE CRUMB HAPPENS AND IT
GOES FROM 0.1% TO 2%, WE GO,
WOW!
AND IT IS.
>> RIGHT.
>> YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO DID
IT, BOBBIE SACKMAN AND SO MANY
OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE AMAZING
WORK.
SO, PLEASE DON'T HEAR ME
PERCEIVING THEM AS NOT WORKING
HARD FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE.
SOCIETALWISE, THIS IDEA 2% IS
ACCEPTABLE FOR 20% IS SO WRONG.
>> IT'S SO COMPLICATED.
I'M SITTING HERE THINKING OF ALL
THE DIFFERENT THINGS.
THE NEED TO LOBBY AND LEGISLATE,
THE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
EFFECT.
>> RIGHT.
>> THAT THE JOBS, THE NEED FOR
THE JOBS SO YOU CAN CONTRIBUTE
TO THE GROSS NATIONAL --
>> NOT ONLY CONTRIBUTE,
HOW DO WE TAKE CARE OF
OURSELVES IF THE WORKFORCE TURNS
ITS BACK ON YOU?
>> AND THE PRESSURE ON YOUNGER
PEOPLE TO HAVE TO HELP.
IT'S JUST OVERWHELMING TO ME.
SO WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS
SOME MORE.
I MEAN, I KNOW --
>> THERE'S SO MUCH TO UNPACK.
THERE REALLY IS SO MUCH.
WE HAVE TO LIMIT OURSELVES.
EVERY TIME SOMETHING NEW
HAPPENS, SHOULD WE TAKE IT ON?
NO, WE CAN'T.
BUT LAST WEEK, THERE'S THAT
ARTICLE FROM "THE NEW YORKER"
ABOUT THE GUARDIAN SYSTEM AND
ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN NEVADA, WHAT
THEY WERE DOING TO THEM, JUST,
LIKE, GRABBING THEM OUT OF THEIR
HOMES AND SELLING OFF THEIR
POSSESSIONS AND EVERYTHING.
WELL, WE KNOW THERE'S PROBLEMS
WITH THE GUARDIAN SYSTEM ALL
OVER THE UNITED STATES.
>> I KNOW FIRSTHAND FROM A VERY
GOOD FRIEND --
>> RIGHT, EXACTLY.
BUT IT'S LIKE --
HOPEFULLY, IT'S NOT AS BAD AS
IN NEVADA, BECAUSE THAT WAS A
HUGE, BIG CASE THING, BUT THERE
ARE PROBLEMS.
I KNOW.
I DEALT WITH APS A LOT WHEN I
WAS IN THE SENATOR'S OFFICE.
>> YOU NOW HAVE A WEBSITE?
>> YES, IT'S
WWW.RADICALAGEMOVEMENT.ORG.
>> FACEBOOK PAGE.
>> WE HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE AND
WE'RE ON TWITTER @RADICALAGE.
IS THAT EVERYTHING?
>> AND COME TO OUR EVENTS.
WHEN THEY LOOK AT FACEBOOK OR
THEY LOOK AT OUR WEB PAGE,
THEY'LL SEE EVENTS.
WE ARE PLANNING A SOCIAL ACTION
IN MAY, OLDER AMERICANS' MONTH.
WHO KNEW?
>> RIGHT.
>> BUT WE'RE PLANNING IT TO BE
IN MAY.
WE HAVEN'T PICKED A DATE YET.
WE'RE STILL WORKING WITH PEOPLE.
WE NEED PEOPLE TO WORK WITH US
TO BE ABLE TO BUILD THIS THE WAY
IT NEEDS TO BE.
STEPPING BACK IS NOT GOING TO
MAKE IT TO BE A VITAL -- TO LIVE
A VITAL AND MEANINGFUL LIFE.
WE HAVE TO HAVE THE HOPE AND
ASPIRATION AND WE HAVE TO HAVE
THE FRUSTRATION AND ANGER.
WE BELIEVE IN WORKING ON
BOTH.
>> LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE
EXPERIENCE IN MEDIA.
>> ALMOST ANYTHING.
>> ANYTHING.
>> WE FOLLOW IT.
THAT JUST BELIEVE IN THIS-
>> ENERGY AND COMMITMENT.
WE'LL FIND SOMETHING FOR THEM TO
DO.
>> WELL, I HOPE WE CONTINUE THIS
DISCUSSION.
AND I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK
AGAIN.
>> WE WILL.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU, RONNIE.
>> THANK YOU.
IT'S BEEN VERY INTERESTING.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
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