- Dude, stop the car.
- Yeah, we're here.
- Let me out right now.
- No no, yeah, all I need is that.
- Dude I don't want- where, stop!
Stop this vehicle.
- Dude, dude!
- Stop the (bleep) car!
- No!
(screaming)
(baby crying)
- Don't you move!
- [Announcer] Welcome, to First Person Defender.
Where regular people come face to face with
unknown attackers in real world scenarios,
and fight their way out.
- Get your hands up!
Get your - ugh!
- [Announcer] This is First Person Defender.
- When we rideshare, we voluntarily get
into a stranger's car.
What could go wrong?
Well, today we have Caleb on the show.
He's fairly trained up, so we thought
we'd really amp it up a bit.
Let's see what happens when he's trapped
in a car with a stranger.
- [Announcer] This force on force training
uses real firearms converted to fire marking cartridges.
The crew wears yellow shirts,
and are considered to be invisible to role players.
Caleb is waiting for his rideshare to show up.
Multiple dangers are lurking in this scenario.
Does he make all the right moves
to avoid the pitfalls ahead?
- 'Sup.
- Excuse me.
(mysterious music)
- How's it going man?
- [Driver] Good.
You Caleb?
- Yeah that's me.
- [Driver] Alright come on in, man.
You headed to your house?
- Yeah, just heading home, man.
- All right.
- How's it been?
- It's good.
(haunting music)
- [Driver] So, how long you've lived around here?
- Not too long.
- [Driver] Not too long?
- Not too long, bro.
Yeah, just moved in here few months ago.
(haunting music)
- There's no way.
- Hey hey, what's goin on? You alright out there?
- Yeah, hello? No no, yeah.
No, I'm in your neighborhood.
Yeah yeah, I'll pick it up.
No I'm just right around the corner. I got-
Dude I got a customer with me.
- Hey hey where we going, man?
- [Driver] I made a wrong turn, my buddy's got something.
- Hey, you know what, can we not pick up your buddy?
- [Driver] No no, I'm not picking him up he's-
- No no no, that's cool, I don't, can we just-
Hey, hold up, can you just stop the car for a second, dude?
If you got a deal, run it in
and I'll get another Uber. - No, no.
It's fine, I'll still tip you out, alright?
- Dude, I did!
No yes, I know, I'm right here.
- I'll take care of you, stop the car.
- I'm telling you right now, - I'm right here.
stop the car.
I'm not comfortable with this, stop the (bleep) car.
- [Driver] Yeah I'm right here!
- Stop the car!
Stop the car right now. - No no, no no.
Don't yell dude.
- I'm going to call 9-1-1. - I'm right here.
- Stop the (bleep) car.
- [Driver] Dude, it's not a big deal, dude-
- Stop the car, - Yeah, we're here.
- Let me out right now.
- No no, yeah all I need is that.
- Dude I don't want- where, stop!
Stop this vehicle.
- [Driver] Dude, dude!
- Stop the (bleep) car!
- [Driver] No!
- Stop the car! - Dude!
- Dude, he's right here!
- Stop the car! - He just...
- Dude, I am not comfortable with this!
Where the (bleep) are we?
- [Driver] No! We're right behind the-
- Stop the car!
- [Driver] Look, there's people here!
- Stop the car!
- [Driver] There's people here.
- No, man! (bleep) you!
- [Driver] Dude, there's pe-
- No, I'm calling 9-1-1!
I'm calling the police!
- Bro, what's going on?
- Hey, I just got out of this (bleep) Uber,
he drove me into a back alley somewhere.
His boy is dropping a package in his car.
I'm somewhere in Mandeville.
I'm in this weird neighborhood, it's like a...
Like a parking structure - Bro, you good?
- With a couple of vehicles around me.
Hey! You're good right there, stop right where you are!
- What are you doing, man?
- I'm on the phone with the police!
You need to stop moving towards me.
- You got a gun?
- Go back to your friend.
- You got a gun? - Go back to your friend.
I just called 9-1-1.
- The (beep), bro?
- The cops are coming.
Hey, I'm going to tip him on the app, that's fine.
- What the (bleep) man?
- I just didn't sign up to go to someone's warehouse.
- You're gonna pull a gun on my buddy?
- Stop right there!
- Oh, what? You're gonna shoot me?
- Stop right where you are! - You gonna shoot me?
Hey shoot me.
- Stop right where you are.
- You gonna shoot me?
Are you gonna pull a gun on my body?
- I didn't pull a gun on your buddy.
- Well you got your (beep) hand on a gun!
- I've got my hand on it, it's in my waist.
- I'm (beep) bringing him something, bro!
- You stay right there, dude!
- You're gonna (beep) shoot me?
- Not unless you do something dumb.
- Come on! Shoot me!
- Stay right there.
- Shoot a man in the back!
- Hey hey! Get down, stop!
- Shoot a man in the back!
- Stop coming towards me!
- You're gonna shoot me in the back?
- Stop coming towards me.
- I don't wanna (bleep) talk to you!
- Can I hurt you?
- Can I hurt you with my hands right now?
- I don't want to talk to you.
(martial arts yell) I don't want to know you.
- Come on!
- Get down on the ground.
- Come on.
Well (beep) you dude!
- You know what, no, I'm not doing this.
- I'm trying to (beep) bring something to my buddy.
- Then go talk to your buddy!
What are you talking to me for?
- Why you got your (beep) hand on a gun?
- You go talk to your buddy. - Alright.
- You deal with your life, I'm going to get another Uber.
I'm gonna talk to the police.
Nobody's gotta have any problems, alright?
- Dude. - You go talk to your boy.
- Why won't you (beep) fight like a man?
- I don't wanna fight you, you're big!
You got (beep) arms on you, dude!
- I'm (beep) big, bro?
- I am not here to get in a fist fight.
- (beep) fight me like a man! - And I'm not here to have
you blocking my exit.
- (bleep) I don't got no gun.
- That's great. I don't care that you don't have a gun.
I'm not here to fight you. - You gonna (bleep) pull
a gun on me? - I just wanna go home.
All right man, I just want to get out of here.
- Dude!
- You know what then, (bleep) you!
(percussive music)
Dude, Caleb...
(beep) that was fun, man!
- That was fun!
- That almost felt real for a second!
Dude, walk me through the whole scenario.
You get in your Uber.
Go, tell me what happened.
- [Caleb] So I get in my Uber,
we're driving back to my place and at some
point during the ride the Uber driver
takes a phone call from his buddy.
And he's like "Hey, I just gotta go pick something up
from my buddy".
Now for me, that's a big red flag.
So at that point, I say hey,
if you want to go get something from your buddy that's cool.
Let me out here, I'll still pay you.
I'll tip you out and everything.
- Absolutely.
- He keeps driving.
At that point now I'm legitimately in danger.
So the minute we get around to this warehouse
and the vehicle reaches a speed that it's safe
for me to exit, I'm out.
At that point you aggressed me, you were coming towards me.
At no point did I feel like I need to draw my gun,
but I wanted to have access to it just in case.
- [Glen] Absolutely.
And then I got enough of a sight line to see I had a
clear retreat lane, so I just took off running.
- Once you got out of the vehicle,
I saw you were on 9-1-1.
I was kind of playing the role of
a tough guy. - Yeah, right.
- You weren't gonna shoot an unarmed dude.
What was going through your head?
- Really what was going through my head was
I was trying to keep distance between you and me,
because the last thing I want to do is
get into an entangled gun fight.
I have a weapon is this situation.
You know I have a weapon, so what that means is
you close the distance, you get hands on me.
Now we're fighting over my gun.
- Absolutely.
- There's been so much going around on media of people
shooting people who didn't necessarily need to be shot
in that situation.
If you have changed your posture, if you hadn't been
standing there with your arms out,
if you had lowered, like, taken any pre-fight queues,
loaded up like you were coming to lunge at me or something
like that, I would have drawn that.
- The coolest thing that I think about this is
the gun did not win the day.
- No, not at all.
- Your mind won the day.
Your situational awareness won the day,
and that's what we always-
This is the weapon.
- [Caleb] Absolutely.
- This is just a tool, we're the weapon.
(digital music)
- Most new guns are pretty reliable,
but some older guns would have issues with
feeding hollow-point bullets occasionally.
So what would happen is the hollow-point,
the edge of this hollow-point bullet would catch
on the feed ramp or somewhere in the process of
loading the gun and they would run
FMJs just fine and sometimes people carry FMJs
which is really less than ideal.
So here's an option for you, the Inceptor ARX bullet.
It's not a hollow-point, but because it has these flutes
on the side of the bullet, it functions
more like a hollow-point, and creates that type of damage.
So, if you have an older gun that doesn't like
hollow-point bullets, it may like the Inceptor ARX.
(digital sounds)
- Awesome job, man.
- Thanks.
- Using the primary weapon, that primary weapon system
is our mind always firing.
Couple things you did that I liked is
you continued to maintain that, that reactionary gap.
The other thing you did is, is you did not pull
your pistol out of the holster.
When we talk about entangled gun fighting
there's a couple of things that I like to teach 'cause,
you know, multiple tools in the tool box,
every situation is a little different.
One of the retention techniques that I teach,
again, I didn't develop this, I didn't come with it,
it was something that was introduced to me
called the G-Wrap.
- Okay.
- Alright, it's primarily developed for when the gun
is already out of the holster
and you're in a stand up, a grappling fight.
What I'm doing is, on top of my firing grip,
I'm wrapping my hand over the ejection port
and the bottom of that slide.
I'm not getting my hand in front of my muzzle, obviously,
that's a no no, we don't wanna lose our digits, right?
- Definitely.
- But I'm grabbing that slide, so look,
my muzzle's clear off my hand, right?
Now I got two points of control on the gun.
I got a lot more force so,
and I've got the leverage point, right?
'Cause if you grab here you have more
leverage on the gun than I do.
So I'm now controlling the leverage point,
and I got two hands on the gun for the fight.
The other thing that we can do with this,
is we have a striking tool.
So I can use a strike with the muzzle, bang!
I could use a strike with the
trigger guard straight ahead, bang!
I can use my elbow, but I can fight with the gun.
Now, as we all know, I can actually fire the gun
from here as well.
- I like this, it feels really positive,
and one of the disadvantages of being a smaller guy
is when you're fighting somebody over a gun,
you need all of the leverage points that you can get.
- [Glen] Hundred percent.
- 'Cause, most people are bigger than me,
then I'm gonna fight. - [Glen] Absolutely.
- And they can, if I'm holding a one handing grip
or even a two handed grip, it's a lot easier to twist
that gun out of my hand. - [Glen] Absolutely.
- And now I'm fighting you, for my gun.
- [Glen] Right, exactly. - I don't want to be there.
- No no no, absolutely, you wanna keep
them on their back foot.
Is it a little bit more of a, uh,
a dangerous technique, advanced technique?
Probably so, you have to be hyper aware of your muzzle,
hyper aware of where your grip is
but we're talking about a real serious situation
of fight for your life now.
- [Announcer] First Person Defender brought to you by,
(exciting music)
Springfield Armory,
ShopGunTalk.com,
Simunition,
GunDealio,
and Ruger.
(digital music)
(gunshots)
- So Caleb did a great job.
He didn't go down the rabbit hole
we were hoping to have him go down.
Our goal was to, for me to put hands on him.
Force him into drawing it and getting in an entangled
gun fight essentially.
If someone encroaches on that space,
puts their hands on you, you are now trying to
retain your firearm or fight over a gun,
there's a few things that we wanna do.
Obviously, we don't want to just stick the gun out there
so they can grab it as well now we're fighting over the gun.
Now we're gonna use a technique called
the Pectoral Index, all right.
The Pectoral Index brings the pistol all the way up inside.
Now we got a lot of retention on it
and we're bringing it close into our body.
If you notice it's high up in my pec
and the muzzle's oriented down into
the pelvic girdle, leg region of our adversary.
We do this for a couple reasons.
I may be striking my target,
I may be throwing a collar tie on my target,
headbutting, trying to set a frame, keep them away.
I don't wanna engage and shoot my hand, my forearm.
Also, who do we know- we don't know
what's behind our target, who else is around,
and we don't wanna possibly get a shoot through or miss
so this way, shoots throughs are gonna pretty much
impact the ground directly behind our target.
So as we're here fighting, I've got a collar tie,
I may be striking my target, I come in real real real tight,
Pectoral Index, I can headbutt, I can grab and pull
the base off of my target with this collar tie,
and I'm gonna engage from this Pectoral Index position.
(gunshots)
(exciting music)
I get those rounds off, hopefully that backs him up,
slows him down, now I can shove away, strike, drive out.
(gunshots)
(exciting music)
Basically, entangled gun fighting is
one of the most dangerous things you can do.
You're now interjecting a pistol into the fight,
whether they're armed or not, now both parties can be armed.
You need to make sure you protect that gun,
get those rounds off on target,
and then create space when you can.
(gunshots)
(exciting music)
- Here are a couple tips
on running the slide on a semi-auto.
Today we're working with the Ruger Security-9,
great gun and actually a lot of value in this gun.
A lot of people, this may be their first gun, who knows?
But, one of the things I see, is, sometimes people
want to ease the slide forward.
Well look, that can cause a malfunction.
So, what you want to do,
is pull the slide back, just let it go forward.
That's the way the gun is designed to run.
You're not gonna hurt anything,
and, it's a more reliable way to load and unload the gun.
So, just a quick tip for you, on running the slide
on a semi-auto.
(gunshots)
(digital music)
- [Announced] In this scenario, Caleb faces
a similar circumstance.
Will his training and instincts help him
when an unexpected threat appears.
- [Driver] What's up man, Caleb?
- What's up dude? Yeah, that's me.
- Uh, sorry bro, hold on.
There you go.
- [Driver] How's it going man?
- [Caleb] Good.
- [Driver] Going over to uh, Goodwill?
- Yeah man, just going down the road a little bit.
- [Driver] All right bro.
Hey, sorry dude if you don't mind bro,
just buckle up.
- [Caleb] Yeah, sure thing.
- Safety first dude, right?
- Absolutely.
(mysterious music)
- Man, that's bad.
- Hey, right here man, you can pull in right here.
- That's a bad curb.
Sorry bro the curb's pretty big.
- Yeah, it is uh, it's a big curb.
- [Driver] This is you right here?
- [Caleb] Yup, that's for me.
Thanks for the ride, dude.
- [Driver] Yeah, absolutely bro.
- Have a good one, alright?
- [Driver] All right dude, have a good one man.
- Hey, is this your phone dude? You-
- Na uh, no, that's not mine.
- Hey (bleep)!
- Give me, your (bleep) gun!
- Whoa dude, whoa whoa whoa!
(struggling)
(tense music)
- Hey, buddy in the car, call 9-1-1!
- [Driver] All right, I'm calling man.
What happened, you okay?
- He's been shot, I don't know how bad it is?
- [Driver] Are you okay dude?
- Yeah yeah I'm good. Stay in your car! Stay in your car!
- [Caleb] Stay in your car, man!
- [Driver] All right, they're coming man!
- [Caleb] Okay.
- [Driver] All right.
(exciting music)
- Uber pulls up, talk me through.
- [Caleb] Uber pulls up, got in the vehicle.
The ride was normal.
- [Glen] Normal.
- [Caleb] When we pulled back into the lot,
I was getting ready to exit the vehicle,
and I'm like, that went way too smoothly.
What really worked and what was a real distraction
was when you asked me if I dropped my phone,
and that's something that everybody's gonna be like-
- And I saw you going to clear,
I was like bro I got your phone man!
- Right? And in my head I'm like, is that a gun
that's coming up?
And it was a phone, I'm like all right cool.
I put my hands back down, and right about then
the other role player came around
and started shouting at me.
I didn't even notice he had the gun out,
all I did was, I felt contact,
I don't know if he touched me with the gun
or touched me with his hand but I was able to get
turned around, see that he had a weapon in his hand
and then there first thing that I wanted to do was
do a wrist tie, and just get control of
that arm that had the gun in it.
- You know, what did you do after
you neutralized the threat?
After you deemed he was no longer a threat.
- [Caleb] After I shot him, and he went direct down
I wanted to look up, not look away,
but you can use your peripherals,
establish what's going on, and I told the vehicle driver,
you in this case to hey, call 9-1-1.
And you started to get out of your vehicle
and I told you to get back in your car,
that's the safest place for you to be when police roll up.
- What we talked about, did you utilize any of that?
Did you utilize that entangled gun fighting?
How did that go down 'cause I couldn't see.
- I sure did, so once I got tied up with the aggressor,
once I got control of his gun arm,
and I knew that weapon wasn't gonna point at me
without a lot of intentionality.
He was trying to use his other hand to fight
my wrist tie-up, so I was able to use my
dominant hand, hook my concealed
and then shoot from that Pectoral Index.
- [Glen] Get a pelvic girdle shot.
- [Caleb] Absolutely. I think I shot him in
the femoral artery.
- Yeah no, awesome, yeah, good job,
and that just goes again to prove why
training is so essential.
- Mm-mm
- You know, you gotta train, go get professional training
from a professional who knows what they're doing
and then practice.
(exciting music)
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