Simon Mayo today reveals how BBC mismanagement sparked his departure from Radio 2
Despite attracting six million listeners a day as solo presenter of Drivetime, Mayo, 60, was told he would be co-hosting the show with Jo Whiley
The partnership was a ratings flop and they were axed after a few months, with Mayo then leaving Radio 2
Speaking for the first time about his exit in today's Event magazine, the broadcaster admits to being deeply hurt when Lewis Carnie, boss of Radio 2, didn't have the decency to tell him face-to-face about the new arrangement
Mayo recalls: 'He goes to my agent, then my agent rings up and says, "Lewis says you've got to have a co-presenter
" And I said, "Oh, really? That's interesting." 'Mayo says. 'It was not how I imagined the end of my career at Radio 2 would work out! I certainly had no intention of going anywhere
'I had thought I would stay there until I was 94, then retire and drop dead. But it didn't work out like that, so it was an uncomfortable period
'They thought it would be an improvement and make the network more contemporary. They made a mistake
'Mayo launches a classical radio station called Scala next month. 'I had my own radio show for 31 years – the BBC didn't even call to tell me it was over': Simon Mayo talks for the first time of his fury over that Drivetime car crash with Jo Whiley
and reveals why he'll play Mozart and U2 at his new classical station Simon Mayo looks happy, and so he should be
The broadcaster was miserable after being forced out of Radio 2 last year, to the dismay of his fans, but he's back now with two big surprises
'I wasn't expecting things to work out this way, but I'm glad they have,' says the 60-year-old DJ and writer, whose gripping new historical novel Mad Blood Stirring has won a movie deal and rave reviews
He's also about to launch a new digital classical radio station called Scala. 'When the offer came in it sounded new, positive and sparkly
I wasn't feeling new, positive and sparkly at the time.' That's a huge understatement from a presenter known for his dry wit and sunny disposition, at least on air
Mayo was deeply hurt when BBC bosses chose to dismantle his hugely popular Drivetime show on Radio 2 last May and force him to rebuild with a female co-presenter
'They made a mistake,' he says bluntly, talking about this openly for the first time
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Then he walked out on the station after six months – and now, with so many new projects on the go, he finally feels able to share his side of the story
'We gave it our best shot. Jo [Whiley] worked hard at it, I worked hard at it, and we could still be doing it now
It's just that I thought, all things considered, I'd chance my arm with Scala and go out on this exciting adventure
'He'll be the face of the new digital station, with a three-hour show six days a week
How did it feel to get such a high-profile offer at such a difficult time? 'It was so encouraging and reassuring to talk to people who really wanted you
You're thinking, "Oh, people think I can still do this."'That suggests his confidence had been dented massively by the way he was treated
'Look, I did a daily show for the BBC for 31 years. That's a long time.' His voice cracks with emotion and Mayo has to swallow hard before going on
Underneath the desire to be fair and positive, he is clearly still upset. That's understandable
He's been with the BBC all his life.Mayo became a big star as the Radio 1 breakfast show host in the Eighties, switched to Radio 5 Live, then established himself at Radio 2
Drivetime won multiple awards and six million listeners a day.'I'm incredibly grateful for all the breaks that came my way
Then, in the end, it broke the other way. Things had changed. It felt different. It felt like it was probably time to go
'How did he first find out about the change? 'It's Lewis, bless him,' he says, referring to Lewis Carnie, the head of Radio 2
'He goes to my agent, then my agent rings up and says: "Lewis says you've got to have a co-presenter
" And I said, "Oh, really? That's interesting."'So even after presenting his own show in various forms at the BBC for 31 years, his boss did not ring him up directly to say it was over
How did he feel? 'It was not how I had imagined the end of my career at Radio 2 would work out! I certainly had no intention of going anywhere
I had thought I would stay there until I was 94, then retire and drop dead. But it didn't work out like that, so it was an uncomfortable period
'I came across a German word last year, Verschlimmbesserung, which means an attempted improvement that makes things worse
If you work in education, the NHS or the BBC you'll go, "Yeah, we've all come across that
" They were trying to make things better. They thought it would be an improvement and make the network more contemporary
They made a mistake.'Did he think about walking out straight away? 'Yeah. There's an inevitable thought: do I throw the toys out of my pram at this point, or do I hang on? But before I got to that I made the suggestion that if they were serious about it they would have to have someone like Jo Whiley in mind, because she's a proper broadcaster
I had this horror of them plucking someone from local radio and going: "You're gonna co-present with this person
" And then I would've walked. But they talked to Jo, and she said: "Fine, OK, I wasn't expecting that, but let's try
"'Mayo and Whiley are peerless broadcasters when in charge of their own shows, but thrust together like this they sounded awkward, tense, unsure who was in charge and even grumpy
'It is certainly true that a lot of people found it an awkward thing to listen to, although the audience figures were fine actually
We were still doing good radio work, still doing interviews, the music we played was still good
But we were being played out of position.'He compares it to his friend Gary Lineker enjoying great success as a striker at Barcelona, until a new manager played him on the wing instead
He hated it and left. 'I thought: that's how this feels.'He still goes into the BBC to do a 5 Live film show with Mark Kermode, but isn't that a bit awkward after the way he was treated? 'I'm still a BBC employee
I'm still part of the furniture. I'm not in Wogan House [where Radio 2 is based], I think that would be difficult
I'm in New Broadcasting House. Of course it feels odd.'Does he think they did this to him because of his age and gender? 'Gender is certainly in the mix
Obviously. Tony Hall was very vocal about that.'The BBC's director-general has made clear his commitment to a better gender balance and there's since been a sea change at Radio 2, with Zoë Ball and Sara Cox taking over the breakfast and drivetime slots and Whiley moving back to her old evening show
'The age thing is one of the reasons I thought I would get away with it,' says Mayo, with disarming honesty
'Chris [Evans] and Jeremy [Vine] were younger than me, Steve [Wright] and Ken [Bruce] were older than me
I had assumed that when the Grim Reaper came it would be for someone else rather than me
' He laughs. 'But it's hard to escape – nor should you – from the fact that it was always very blokey
The issue was that every single show was phenomenally successful.'Some of those stars would have flounced out if they'd been told to have a co-host wouldn't they? 'There are many of my colleagues who would have said: I don't think so
But I'm glad I gave it a shot. Then this new thing came along and it sounded like an exciting way to spend the next few years
And I've never been in at the start of something.'Did Radio 2 try to persuade him to stay? 'Yes, they did
They wanted me to stay. They wanted me to carry on doing the show with Jo. I was never quite sure what they were offering, but I just didn't think their heart was in it
'He couldn't reveal the Scala move when he announced his departure back in October
Instead, Mayo said he would now be concentrating on his writing. But his will be the first voice you hear on Scala when it launches at 10am on March 4
'It's an entertainment network that plays classical music,' he says. 'So we'll have guests, features, interviews, quizzes, whatever
And then we'll play Mozart instead of Marvin Gaye. They've done a lot of research into the number of people who listened to my old Radio 2 show and Classic FM
There's a lot of them.'Scala will be pitched somewhere between Radio 3, which often comes across as intensely serious, and Classic FM, which can sound like it's aiming to be soothing background music
'You will laugh and smile listening to this stuff in a way you might not with the existing stations
'Weekend presenters will include William Orbit, who used to produce Madonna, and Mark Kermode, who will introduce film scores
Mayo is a household name with a big following, whose signing for Scala made the news, but does he know his classical music?'I was brought up on Gilbert and Sullivan, my father was a fan
When I was a kid I knew all the words to The Nightmare Song from Iolanthe. I don't any more! So I said to them, "How about that? Is it too old school?"'Will he have that level of say over what he's playing? 'It certainly seems that way, yes
I've already tested the waters. We'll play Mozart, Chopin, all the stuff you'd expect us to play, but if Scala is going to work and find an audience there will be moments when you go: "Oh, this is different
"'One example is the rock-classical crossover Miss Sarajevo by Passengers, the collaboration between U2 and Luciano Pavarotti
'The first two-and-a-half minutes are noodling electronica with Bono singing, then from nowhere Pavarotti starts up
It's amazing! So I said: "Can we play that?! The answer was pretty much the same as when I asked about the Gilbert and Sullivan: "If you explain what we're about to hear and why we're playing it, then why not?"'He's relishing this
'There were other offers but this was the one that felt like I could be me again
I could talk to people not thinking that I'm restricted by the requirements of the radio station, the target audience
No one is embarrassed about anything.' That's a telling comment, as a casualty of Radio 2's embarrassment at having a schedule full of middle-aged men
But Mayo had already explored other ways of making a living, with three novels for children and young adults to his name
The first came out of a story he wrote for his youngest son, Joe, about a boy called Itch who is obsessed with the periodic table
Mayo has been married to Hilary, a ceramic artist, since 1986. They have three grown-up children and live in north London
Joe was eight years old when Itch was begun, ten years ago.'It worked, so I wrote another, then another and another
I'm going to Australia to watch the filming of an Itch TV series. They've changed Cornwall for Perth in Western Australia because ABC put up the money
'Is it easier to write novels if you're famous? 'Yes and no. It was easier to get a publisher and an agent
But bear in mind I was writing for children who haven't got the first idea who I am
'His latest novel, for adults, was born when he accidentally discovered an astonishing true story
At the end of the little-known second American War of Independence in 1812, Dartmoor Prison contained 7,000 captured American sailors
A thousand of them were black, kept in a segregated block at the request of their white former shipmates
FIVE SURPRISING TRACKS TO EXPECT FROM MY NEW SHOW Heart Of Glass (Crabtree remix) This is a mix of Blondie's Heart Of Glass and the second movement of Philip Glass's Violin Concerto
It featured in the first series of The Handmaid's Tale. The Boundless Skies Written by Joe Hisaishi and performed by the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra
It's from the video game Ni No Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom. That Would Be Enough Taken from the musical Hamilton, a ground-breaking production with a melting pot of styles, blending classical and modern musical forms
3 Pieces For Cello And Piano By Nadia Boulanger, an influential composer and teacher who counted Burt Bacharach and Quincy Jones among her pupils
The Last Rose Of Summer From the opera Martha by Friedrich von Flotow, performed by Renée Fleming and the English Chamber Orchestra
It opens the 2017 film Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. They were led by a real-life giant of a man called King Dick, who wore a bearskin, swung a club to enforce his gangster-like rule and put on productions of Shakespeare plays
'It's a good job this guy is real,' says Mayo, 'because if I wrote a novel with him in it, people would go: "We don't think so
"'The prisoners got angry when there was a delay in releasing them at the end of the war
British soldiers over-reacted. Mad Blood Stirring places the massacre that followed alongside a prison production in which Romeo is played by a black boy called Habs and Juliet by a white boy called Joe and they fall in love for real
The play actually happened.The book is just out in America, where the reviews have been terrific, a producer has bought the movie rights and a screenplay has been written by Jack Thorne, whose play Harry Potter And The Cursed Child is in the West End and who has adapted Philip Pullman's first trilogy for the BBC
'Jack is hot property right now,' says Mayo. 'The film rights were sold on the basis of the four-page synopsis, before I'd written the book, which made it slightly pressurising! They say they're very close to making it, they're talking to a director at the moment
'Mayo researched the book meticulously and approached a number of leading figures for advice about whether he was getting the language right
'I was very aware that I'm a white Londoner writing this story, but I'm writing a piece of fiction
Authors do this all the time, you have to write believable characters. I think it only grates if you get that wrong
'The n-word and highly provocative phrases stayed in. 'The racial language in the book is very strong and it was very uncomfortable to write
' It reflects the way the black and white sailors and guards would really have talked to each other though, he insists
'All the terminology is freighted with danger. But if you can't write honest dialogue there's no point
'Honesty matters to Mayo, who has written a mesmerising story laden with historical detail, driven by a gift for narrative that will surprise anyone who hasn't read his previous books and just knows him as a DJ
'If people are surprised, that's fine,' he says. 'Surprising career choices are something I seem to have experienced a lot lately
' He smiles, sounding confident again. 'These are exciting times. I can be me.' Listen to Simon Mayo from 10am-1pm, Mon-Sat on Scala Radio, scalaradio
co.uk. 'Mad Blood Stirring' is out in paperback on Thursday
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