- What is your best bam for the buck?
We're going to find out as we test two and a half
versus three inch exhaust and expensive mufflers
versus budget mufflers.
(epic music)
This is Engine Masters presented by Amsoil
and sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl's Vapor Guard Hose.
Remember back in Engine Masters episode nine?
We did a test of two and a half versus three inch
exhaust tubing on a big block Chevy that made 600
horsepower and the three inch exhaust was way better.
But a whole bunch of the audience said,
that's great, what about the rest of us who
don't have 600 horsepower?
You wanted to see stuff for normal guys who just have
mild engines with typical bolt ons and want to know
what exhaust to buy and that's what we're going to
do right here.
And we're going to do it with this engine that only
makes about 345 horsepower.
This is like, a L98 out of a third gen Camaro.
It's a small block Chevy, it's 350 cubic inches.
That's about all we know about what's inside this thing.
It's been sitting around Westech Performance for so long,
everyone has forgotten what cam shaft's in it.
We know it's got this 650 Holley on it.
It's got an Edelbrock air gap dual plane intake manifold.
None of that matters as much as the power it's
making, which is about 345, because that dictates how much
air it's moving through the exhaust system.
Which means what we learn here today as we test
two and a half versus three inch exhaust
and bucks up mufflers versus cheap mufflers,
that is all going to apply to any engine making about
the same power level.
So let's roll the thing to the dyno right now.
I'm going to have to figure out what kind of AmsOil
to put in this complete mystery engine,
then we're going to fire it up and show you how much
power it makes first with either two and a half
or three inch exhaust.
We're pretty sure this engine is that L98 factory
motor but you know, we're not positive,
so we're going to go with a lot of protection and the
Amsoil Premium Protection 10-40.
You want to know a secret?
Watch how you can put oil into an engine really quickly.
You know how I normally go for the pour?
Instead, shove it in there and go for the squeeze.
Bam, full quart in the engine already.
You see that?
That was magic right there.
You will use that in your life.
For this test, we did a baseline run with two and
a half inch exhaust pipe.
Test A is going to show you how swapping out to the
three inch pipe compares to that baseline with
two and a half inch pipe.
Both tests are being done with a Magnaflow
straight through mufflers.
Now the baseline test with two and a half inch
piping gave us 400 pound feet of torque at
3800 RPM and 345 horsepower at 5100 RPM.
Now we're going to find out what happens when we go
to that three inch pipe.
I think the only difference we're going to see is in
variance of--
- [Steve] Tone.
- Of air temperature and water temperature
and oil temperature, I mean.
- What about variance in tone, exhaust note?
- It's going to sound a little bit throatier of course.
- It's going to be a lot louder.
- But, do you think it's going to make more power?
- You know, like I said in the last 15 years,
I don't remember doing this test and anything before
that I don't remember period, so.
- I'm just presuming that 350 horsepower has plenty
of room to get out of a two and a half inch pipe.
But, I don't know.
(whistling)
He thinks it's going to be, fire it up, let's just do this!
(revving)
I don't know what to say so I'm not saying anything.
Go ahead.
- And the answer is.
- Ready?
(drumming)
Boom, nada.
There is no difference, we're talking,
that's a quarter of a horsepower if you can even see
the line separating.
Thus--
- Which means, we're not surprised
and he was wrong and we're right.
- Yeah and we didn't bet.
- [Steve] The difference is with a two and a half,
they know you have 350 inch motor and with a three inch
they think you have a 383.
(laughing)
- So, you have all the noise and none of the advantages.
- Absolutely.
- Okay, so what I really want to know since this makes
no difference is,
those are expensive mufflers, I think they're
virtually a hundred bucks each.
Stainless steel, nice Magnaflow, straight through
and everything.
What if you bought a 27 dollar Thrush muffler.
Cause if you have a 350 horsepower small block,
you're probably buying cheap mufflers, right?
- I think you'd be surprised by the results.
- He says that every test.
- Well, let's find out, I want to go put the little
Thrush on there and see if it makes a difference.
I bet it kills some power.
- I bet it doesn't.
- Then let's go find out.
- It'll kill power.
- Both of those tests were with a Magnaflow muffler,
which is a stainless steel design.
It's a really nice piece.
These things have a straight through core.
Actually, of course, this has a curvature in it
because it's a center inside out or a side in
center out.
You can run it either way, because there's no
restriction in it.
It goes right through the middle.
It has a perforated core with some packing in it
to attenuate sound but obviously it doesn't effect
horsepower in what we just tested,
which was two and a half versus three inch exhaust
and obviously, it made no difference on that 350
Chevy at all.
Now here's what you can deduce from that.
First of all, two and a half inch exhaust with
a good muffler is all you need for 350 horsepower
and therefore, for any amount of power less than that.
Now the other thing is, you'll read a lot of times
people saying, don't go to a bigger diameter exhaust
pipe or you're going to lose torque because
of a sound wave resonance, or because of back pressure.
We didn't see any of that at all.
The two and a half and the three were exactly the same.
But because of that, I said to these guys,
man, I want to know more.
That Magnaflow costs a 108 bucks.
What happens if I use a muffler that costs 40 bucks?
And that's what this is.
It is the Thrush Hush Muffler, I've used these
things my whole life, this is the ultimate
teenage muscle car muffler.
See 'em all the time.
This one's three inch in, three inch out.
The difference is, this is has a block in it
that it uses to attenuate sound,
it is not straight through.
So the question is, is that going to hurt power?
And we're going to go find out because we're going to
throw this in the exact same exhaust system
which is the three incher on our 350 Chevy.
But before we run it, here's one more thing
you need to know.
On this budget muffler, it may have a three inch pipe
but if you look inside there, it necks down to like
two and a half, maybe even two and a quarter.
It seems like every case is the same regardless
of the inlet and outlet sides and the big restriction
is in the core.
That could hurt it.
Install it.
- Yes, sir.
(laughter)
- I'm here for the expert tutelage, you're the wrench.
- I understand the difference between.
I know where I am on the ladder.
(funky music)
- Right then, to your muffler.
- Bam.
We might have fallen down on the symmetry a little bit
but I think the power is alright.
- Ah, close enough.
- [Steve] Brule didn't get that clock 90 degrees.
- I know, Brule is a hack.
- Wow.
- Okay, low buck muffler, ready to go.
I say it loses power, how about you?
- I say it stays the same.
- [Dave] Really.
- I say, I don't know, let's find out.
(laughter)
- That was really the correct answer because
none of us know.
- [Dave] I know.
(revving)
Sounds mellow, listen to that.
- [Steve] Wow, it's quieter.
- [Dave] And it killed some power.
- Killed more than a little.
- [Steve] Did it?
- Killed it a lot.
So that's it right there.
Here is our original test with the three inch Maganflow
muffler that is just straight through.
And you compare that to the Thrush at a three inch
and it's just making between five and 15
fewer power numbers at every point in both the
horsepower curve and the torque curve.
- That's a big difference.
- It's a big difference.
- So, it's that example of where you get what you pay for.
- Yeah, to change to the Thrush means you're saving
basically 50 bucks a muffler, so for a hundred dollars
for a pair of mufflers, that's what you're giving up.
- I will tell you that that kind of power difference
for a hundred dollars total--
- [Dave] Is really hard to get.
- Yeah, that's a pretty good bargain.
- So, the better muffler is definitely worth it.
And here's the other thing that we know.
The three inch Thrush made less power than the
two and a half inch Magnaflow.
Now if you think about that for a minute,
a bunch of two and a half inch piping is way cheaper
than three inch steel so you save some money
and it's lighter.
So if you had the choice right now of running a great
muffler on a two and a half inch system versus
a budget muffler on a three inch system.
- I think the answer is the Magnaflow with the two
and a half on this.
- [Steve] On this particular--
- Power level.
- That's what you do, we know that on 600 horsepower,
you chose the bigger.
- You get all the power, you save some weight,
it's less expensive overall.
- But there's one consideration neither of you have
mentioned and that's sound.
That's a lot quieter than the Magnaflow
straight through muffler.
For a lot of guys, I mean, they want a--
- That's a big deal.
This one is much quieter so that is a distinct
benefit for a lot of people of the Hush Thrush
or Thrush Hush.
- Yeah.
- Do you think there's a big difference in tone
at part throttle cruising?
- Oh yeah, any of the straight through mufflers,
they blat more than a muffler like the Thrush
with a block plate and I think a lot of that can
be attenuated with a crossover tube which we don't have,
but that's a test for another day.
So, between you and me.
- Yeah?
- Do you think Brule is losing his edge?
- Why?
- Well, I just notice how you can bring in a 1200
horsepower, like, any big block Chevy
and he gets more excited about when the 350 Chevy
makes quiet 340 horsepower, what's with that?
- [Steve] I don't know, must be old age
creeping up on him.
- [Dave] How come we bring in like the most boring average
test ever, with mufflers on a 350 horsepower motor
and still ends up being pretty interesting?
- I've got to say, I was kind of excited about it too
so it wasn't just Brule.
I really wanted to know it and really my bigger is
better always theory kind of let me down.
- It did, I know.
Well, but the thing is, like, the real world like for
all of us, like for your pickup truck that you want
to drive everyday.
You don't want the thing rapping with a huge
muffler that's going to drone your brains out.
- No, I really want a quiet but,
I'm not really willing to give up much horsepower, so.
- So, are you a two and a half inch Magnaflow guy?
Because I'm still a two and a half inch Thrush guy.
If I'm putting together something I don't care that
much about acceleration, I'll just get the cheaper
muffler because I'm probably not going to own the vehicle
long enough to justify the lifespan of the stainless
steel muffler that makes another 15 horsepower.
- Well, I'm kind of aiming for 500 horsepower in
the truck so I probably will be the Magnaflow guy.
But, on a lower horsepower engine like this,
yeah, the Thrush is a way better choice if you want
a quiet car that you can actually drive around
and live with on a day to day basis.
When we do these tests, I always find myself
thinking kind of more philosophically about it then
I did before we walked in the door and tested them.
It's like, oh yeah, it makes more power,
I want the thing that makes more power but then
I often realize, well, I'm only losing 15 throughout
the curve, am I really going to feel that,
am I really going to care, do I want to save the 80 bucks
on mufflers and however much on tubing?
I don't know, it's always a lot to think about.
It's why I like Engine Masters.
- Yeah, I mean, for me, the 15 bucks or 50 bucks
or 80 bucks I'll forget about long before
I get over a lot of exhaust noise and living with it
day in and day out.
- Okay, good point.
- It's a tossup, I'm undecided, I'm more confused than ever.
(laughing)
- And that's why we do Engine Masters.
No matter what we're testing, we always walk in
with one set of questions and ideas and walk out
with another.
Check us out, every time, as we deal with like
the 1200 horsepower big blocks, the 340 horsepower
small blocks, it's what we do on Engine Masters,
which is presented by Amsoil.
Sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl's Vapor Guard
and you can watch it on either YouTube or
Motor Trend On Demand or now on Amazon Prime.
- Amazon Prime, really?
- We're big time now.
- Wow.
- Alright, peace out.
Travis, what are you doing?
You want to come run the engine?
- [Travis] I'll run it?
- Yeah, yeah.
- [Travis] What do you mean?
- Well, it means that I get to direct the scene.
- [Travis] And you come over here.
- And you get to run the motor.
- [Travis] Wow, never thought I'd smoke in the company.
(laughing)
- I thought Brule was going to be a camera op.
- [Steve] Walk over there as soon as--
- You can put on headphones if you want this.
- [Steve] Oh, of course.
- [Dave] He's going to direct!
- [Steve] I want to put your earbuds in my ears.
You see that big red button that stop, Dave?
- Yep, I'm on it.
- [Steve] Okay, that's your job.
Give it a little gas.
(revving)
Just go to wide open and let it stabilize.
Go to wide open first, all the way, all the way.
Push it hard.
Push the button.
(revving)
(clapping)
Super proud, alright team.
- [Travis] Super difficult and awesome.
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