[Introductory music]
So, the ultimate reality is person. -Is person. -Absolutely correct. I agree with that. So, now, so, tell us
in the, with this person, this person manifests in various forms, -Right. -This person manifests as everything there is. -Right.
Because if this person is all there is, then whether this is flower or bottle of water or
something, there is no independent reality from this person. -Right.
So, now explain how this person relates to, how do the deities that we worship relate to this person.
And this is, I am leading to the Sabarimala type issue also. Because I want to be able to go and tell those judges
that they really ought to come and learn from the, those who have the source
code and not try to figure out this bottom up, empirical data
because they borrowed all this knowledge from Europe. They called it some
secularism kind of constitutional idea of courts and all that.
And so, therefore there is Christianity disguised into it. Hidden into this framework. -Right. -Because to break out of that
you have to really go to the parampara. -Right. -So, this parampara based knowledge of who is the deity
is necessary in order for them to adjudicate a case on what is the right of
this deity, why are they doing this, who can do it, why not.
So, tell me from the Bhagavatam point of view who is the deity. -See, from the Bhagavatam point of view, once that
cognisant, all cognisant supreme being is omnipotent because everything is come from him, all
energy is come from him. When he is source of the energy then he is all potents.
Omnipotent also. So, the omnipotent lord, let me tell you the categories of tattvas first.
First there is this, Vishnu Tattva. Vishnu Tattva is the category of truth which is eternal.
The personalities who are eternal. In other words, that cognisant being, Vyasdev says Krishna Krishnastu Bhagwan swayam.
But, that supreme being has capacity of unlimited expansions. See, just like, you know,
Prabhupada says that we are sample gods. By understanding ourselves you can understand what that person is. So,
like, for instance, if I have, let's say I am sitting in my office. I am talking with my subordinate.
And I am, you know, he is my employee. So, I have a relationship as an employer
and employee. Suddenly let's say, a telephone call comes from,
and at the other end I find it's my wife. Immediately I load my husband personality to
my consciousness. Then after my wife speaks for few minutes and say,
Why don't you speak to your son, he wants to have a word. Then next
immediately I switch over to my personality as a father. Like this
I can have so many personalities, so many rasas I can have. Relationship, one person can have.
But here in this case, in our case, sample god, we have, we can have only one body. That omnipotent god,
for each of these rasas he will take one body. Adwaiyatam achyutam anadim anant rupam.
adyam puran purusham. -So, I want to make sure we are clear on this. So, I want to understand better.
So, tell me about the tattvas that are part of the absolute. These tattvas are
part of the absolute? -Yes. These are part of the absolute.
So, how many, is it finite tattvas? Is it infinite tattvas? What are the major
tattvas? -See, as per Bhagavatam, there is the infinite tattva.
It's called tripadavibhuti of the Lord. -Okay. -Three quarters. -Okay. -This material world is called
ekpada vibhuti. This also opulence of the Lord. There, unlimited Vishnus are there, unlimited Vaikunthaa planets are there
they are all eternal. -So, there are unlimited personalities there.
-Unlimited personalities, but yet, advaitam achyutam. Advaitam.
They are all non-different. They are one personality, adjoining capacity is
unlimited. -There are unlimited tattvas -Yes. -In the ultimate reality.
No, one tattva, -Yes. -Unlimited expansions. That is called Vishnu tattva. -So, one tattva, unlimited personalities?
Unlimited personalities. And there is a amsha tattva also, jivas, who have rasa with Narayana.
So, that constitutes the spiritual world. Unlimited spiritual planets, each spiritual planet is predominated by a Narayana.
So, the jivas are unlimited personalities? -Jivas are also unlimited
personalities. -And the tattva of the lord has unlimited personalities.
Haan, unlimited personalities. Yet he is one. -So, we have an infinity with, we have an infinity of personalities as one.
Yes. -And an infinity of jivas also, -As infinity, as infinity. -Also as part
of this. -As part of that. It's emanated from him. -Okay.
So, our Rupa Goswami says, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, that this supreme Lord, all cognisant being
He has got, he expands himself as swamshah, that means his own expansions, extension, Narayana.
Then he is vibhinna amshas. Vibhinna namshas are all the jivas. So, we are the jivas. So, in that way we have also come from God.
To that extent we are also god, that way. -So, we are beginning-less, we were always there?
-The soul is beginning-less, -The Jiva is beginning-less. -Beginning-less.
We are eternal. This is what Krishna tells in the Bhagavad Gita second chapter itself tells
Arjuna, there was never a time when I did not exist or Arjun or all this.
We shall always exist in future. That means the soul never dies. Only the body
dies. We are eternal. So, now let's come to the ekapada vibhuti.
Right. -The material world. Material world is, you know, normally everybody, you know, the common notion is, it's illusion.
Right. -Right? Why, because it doesn't last forever. -It's impermanent. -Impermanent. In the sense it undergoes through
creation, maintenance and annihilation. And there also jivas are there. Now, in, among the jivas,
powerful jivas become devas. Those who, in the material world
power is measured by punya. That is the law of karma. So, those who have accumulated lot of punya,
they take the position of devas. Devas are like people who are in power. Like,
you know, each deva is in charge of different departments. And…
So, the deva who has accumulated punya can dispense off it, distribute it?
Can distribute it too. -And therefore, somebody could do bhakti to the deva and get something.
-Exactly. -So, the deva is like a bank with a certain credit that you can get.
Yes. –You can apply and get something out. –Exactly. –But, it is, -Just like I go to a
donor I ask him something, -But, he is also like, -Can give what he has.
The donor is also one of us, he is a billionaire, he is accumulating something. –Exactly. –And I did not, so, I
might be helping. –Exactly. –So, deva is like one of us, -One of us. –who ended up getting better
In the free market system he did better than me. –Ha ha ha ha. Exactly. –That's what, right? –Right. Exactly. -But it is
His welfare and what he has accumulated is finite. It will come to an end. –Finite. Antah mantu falam
teshah. It is all having an end. –The karma is finite, the phal is finite. –Phal is finite.
That's why Krishna says that, see, alpamedasa, those who are less intelligent, they go to the devas
because what they can give is not eternal life. But those who come to me I
can give them eternal life. I can take them to Vaikuntha.
I can transmit, transfer their soul to Vaikuntha. But if you are remaining, if you want to remain here in this chakra of mrityu,
samsara. –Karmic. –karmic chakra, you can remain here. That's one beautiful thing
about the entire, -So, the devas are within the karma system.
They are… -100% within the karma system. Devas are within the karma system.
So, now, let's come into, let's come to the deity. –Right.
So, the lord is omnipotent and if I have a Krishna deity,
there is a whole system which he has given in the shastras. Procedure, the panchratrika vidhi or agama process.
The procedure is given in the Shastras, what all you have to do, of course, in
addition to bhakti. See, bhakti is from the heart calling out the lord.
Please come and, you know, I want to serve you. Because what has happened is, when we are
in body, we do not have that spiritual senses to see the spiritual form.
We have gyan indriyas and karma indriyas. But normally we think karm indriyas, gyan indriyas are gross senses.
No. gross, the eyes doesn't see, actually, the soul sees through its gyan indriya,
seeing, hearing etc. The same eyes on a dead body doesn't see.
So, the soul has this faculty of sense of seeing, sense of touching, sense of smelling taste. Now, unfortunately,
my entire input system, gyan indriyas and karma indriyas are stuck in this body,
that means in the gross world. So, lord is transcendental. He is of a different, as we said, different vibrations.
His body is of sachitananda. Sat means eternity, I told that it is eternal form. Satchit, full of knowledge
ananda, full of bliss. So, that is his form. I can see only a flesh form. Now, the lord says,
Look, okay, you cannot perceive me because you are conditioned now. But I,
if you are ready, if you want to come to me, it's out of free will. That's one beautiful thing in our entire
Vedanta. You have free will. If you want to remain in this world, you can remain here forever.
You want to come, you can come. So, let's say a group of people are there who are
devotees, who want to worship Krishna, who want to offer services to him.
Just because you are trapped in this body, I don't want to deprive you of that. I am omnipotent. I will come into the deity
as long as you have faith that I can come into the deity and become the deity, you
offer me service, I will take it. You offer me food, I will eat it.
And give back prasadam. You glorify me, I will hear. You chant my name I will hear.
So, actually, this is called avatara, archa avatara. Deity means archa avatara. Krishna came 5000 years back
That is another type of avatara. Archa avatara is in archa vigraha. In archa vigraha, he comes down on the call of the acharya.
The person should call. Again, it comes with the same thing. You need to have that connection.
-Right. -If you vibrate in that connection and also follow the discipline,
then you will see, he will come. And then he will receive. So, the person is living with you. This is out of love.
He lives with you. You want to worship him, he lives with you. -So, the
lord, in response to the devotion comes in a certain form,
lives with you. -Lives with you. -And so, can this be done in different forms by different devotees.
Because you have different forms right here in the temple. -Right. -Same lord. -Yes.
-So, you, there is a protocol for bringing the lord in particular form
and another one in bringing the lord, -There is a protocol. That forms are described.
-Right. -In the Shastras. -Right. -I can't imagine anything. That's paganism.
You can't just imagine one form and say, that is god. The lord has also described I will come.
Shree Krishna is described in particular, -So, there are certain templates
or certain forms, there are there. -Yes. -These are the true forms. -Yeah. -So, in those, one of those true forms
Lord will come if you are performing the right protocol, the right worship, the right method,
-Devotion. -the right devotion. And you are qualified to do so which means
you raise yourself to that level. -Right. -And so, it is not an arbitrary form that I
just make up. -No, no. because it has to be a, you see, just like,
Prabhupada gives another beautiful example about the deities. He says, you have a
general post-office. You can go and put your letter in the post box.
Into GPO. All over the city you have small small post boxes. Now, they are
authorized post boxes. You put your letter it will still go to GPO.
So, in the same way unlimited archa vigras are there. You offer your seva. It will go to the lord.
But the fact that there are unlimited post boxes, -Yeah. -does not mean that everything is
a post box. -Haan, suppose somebody, -That's a very common confusion.
Yes. Suppose somebody creates another red box somewhere. Tomorrow outside my house I put one. The
letters will not go. -Right. -So, it needs to be authorized. -There is a common thing which
says that truth has innumerable forms does not mean that all forms are true.
Exactly. They need to be authorized. -The fact that there are many paths to the same destination does not mean that
all paths go to that destination. -Exactly. Beautiful! -Many roads lead to the destination,
but some roads are cul de sacs, some go to the dead sea, some go down a pit. -Right. -So, there is a confusion.
In fact, that is what Prabhupada used to tell. See, Prabhupada told, see, you cannot say all path will lead to the same end.
No, this is.. -This is such a common confusion among 99% of our gurus. -Yes. -I have
done so many interviews now I don't want to do interviews even.
Because I will ask them this question that if the truth is one there are so many forms doesn't
mean that everybody's claim is true and they get confused. -It doesn't make sense.
They will say, okay, it's lunch, dinner time, we go. Some very important interviews that you will see on my YouTube.
where I am sitting there. First of all, instead of a private session where there is are
cameras because then the person will not know how to get out of it,
they will say, let's have this 5000 people we will sit there and talk because then a
person can quickly declare a dinner break and say, let's get out of here.
And I have had this happen so many times. This is a very simple logic question, -Yes. -There, our
gurus are very confused about. Many of them. -No, it's a fact that I would say that
it is all influence of the west and western interpretation. And the root cause of this is also another thing
is the impersonal, limiting themselves to the impersonal aspect of the absolute truth. See, absolute truth is also impersonal.
There is personal and his energy is impersonal. -Right. But the impersonal is not
the highest. -is not the highest. Just like if I punch somebody.
you know, you will punish me not my energy. -Yeah, because I can see as part of the personal
there is an impersonal subset or an aspect. -Definitely. -But not the other way around. -Not the
other way around. -I cannot create personhood out of impersonal things. -Exactly.
I cannot. -In fact, Vyasadeva, he says, the absolute truth, the learned transcendentalist say that the absolute truth
is seen in three different levels. One is Brahman, parmatma and bhagwan. Vadanti tattva vedasta
Tattvam adgyanam adwayam. Adway gyanam. All three are non different. Brahman, parmatma and bhagwan.
Bhagwan is adipurushah, the original source. Parmatma is immanent god in this material creation, parmatma. The immanent god.
And Brahman is the energy from which this material world has transformed into. So, they are all one truth, adway gyanam. But,
one is more complete than the other. Brahman, realization is first. Realization that we are that apart from material energy
there is a spiritual energy. That's Brahman. Then there is parmatma
realization is a localized, the lord is all pervading in a person
as a person. That is the parmatma realization. And then finally, everything is
coming from Bhagwan. Bhagwan is like in the spiritual world.
is the transcendental aspect of god. The immanent aspect of god and
transcendental aspect of god. So, there are three aspects of realization.
Beautiful -So, if somebody is simply states that absolute truth is Brahman. No form, no name, no individuality.
Ultimately, they will say there is no god also. -Right. -God also is only
for because the moment you say you and god then do ho gaya.
Right. -So, that means, you know, ultimately there is no god also, you also. there is no god also, you also.
You need not feel offended because they are not saying there is no god, there is no you.
They are saying that you, there is no identity at all. -Right. There is no selfhood. -No selfhood,
yes. -There is no ultimate selfhood. -Yes. Whereas the philosophy of Bhagwatam is
there is an absolute selfhood for every jiva. -So, there is an ultimate self, then there is
a manifested, you know, immanent self. -Yes. -in form, in a context. And then there is the energies, material existence. -Yeah.
which also has levels beyond the visual, beyond the what we can see. -Wonderful.
Yes, yes. -So, even that has higher, but that's not personhood.
That's not personhood. -Yes. And that is the domain to which science is limited.
-Highly limited, by definition. They are limiting themselves. -Right.
See, for instance, if you take one example of modern science. Modern science, the modern physics
till Einstein's time, time was not an ontological reality.
Time was simply a way of representing events, a way of understanding. So, it
was simply a knowledge item, you know, so, how to study motion
so, time came in to my mind. They never ever imagined that time is ontological reality.
It's a reality. Like length, breadth and height, it's another dimension.
This is given in our shastras right kaala is an energy of the lord. It's an energy, it's not in your head. It's a reality, kaala.
And Einstein's theory of relativity, you know, it came out with this. Then how did it,
how did it then come out with kaala? How did he come out with kaala?
Because of the discipline. It came from mathematics. It didn't come from experiment first. Just see. Ultimately buddhi was used
as an instrument. -Yes. -It vibrated in a particular frequency. He must have done tapasya. Meditating on this problem
and then it resulted in, you know, in the mathematical equation it came out. Yes, it is
another dimension. Newton thought the entire world is a static stage.
But it overturned the entire science. Overturned the entire science. So, there are so many things that the science do not know
this is one example where buddhi is also used. Today most of the findings of modern physics are coming from mathematics.
It is not from the gross experiment. Many of the things that mathematics have come
to conclusion, they are not able to find appropriate experiments.
Because they are so subtle. So deep inside they have to go. So, they spend billions and
billions to create this, you know, particle accelerator and all those things.
Whereas our rishis could, you know, just go vibrate in the right frequency and get
all the truth out. Sabarimala, the Supreme Court has said that,
you know, respecting gender equality. Unidirectional thinking. They said that,
everybody should be allowed. If they really know the reality, reality is, Ayappa is a deity,
is a personality. He has, he wishes something. Personality means he has wish.
-And he was requested to come with that condition. -Yes, yes.
That we will respect his wish. -His wish. His wishes. Now if the, you know, if the Supreme Court says that
no, no, no, you don't have to, you just, gender equality means they are thinking he is just a stone. -Right.
It's very wrong. -Right. -So, it is just your imagination, so, what is your problem, they say. -So, I want to ask here,
that when the right procedure is used to invite the lord as a deity
and then as per the prescription, as per the protocols we supply the certain food. The deity is a living person, we do seva.
Now, is there an amendment to that possible? Can future generation say, we would like to,
we would like to request the deity to change the deal.
With his permission it can be done. Yes. Right? With his permission. But then who can get his permission?
So, not the Supreme Court. -Not the Supreme Court. -That's good. -See,
Because they are not the acharyas. They are not in that frequency. -In fact, there is a, exactly.
There is actually a procedure for knowing the mind of the deity. -Please explain that.
It is called deva prashna. -Okay. Deva prashna. -Deva prashna. -Okay. Good, good. -You
know, it's one branch of astrology. -So, you are asking a question.
You ask a question. And your by, you know, when the first question is put by the tantri. Tantri is a chief priest.
that is taken as the birth time of that question. And the rest of the things are
like the, exactly as astrology. They invoke whatever is required
You know, that spirituality or that fine, subtle vibration that is required. With that if deva prashna
if somebody does that deva prashna, there are experts who do deva prashna. Every
astrologer cannot do deva prashna. And there it will indicate
almost all temples in Kerala they do that whenever there is a problem in the temple, they ask deva. They
try to understand the mind of the deity. -And the deity will give it answer in what form?
In what way? -The deity will give answer in the form of see, -Some physical thing.
-Physical thing. Haan. That the, you see, just like in natal chart
you know, there is a reading. -Right. -So, this combines with this, it's
favourable, not favourable. There is a science behind that. -Right.
Symbol through which… astrology is a symbol through which, you know, destiny communicates. -So, in the defence of the temple
did anybody, did the priest there say, we are going to do this deva prashna. -They
have done. -And we will tell the court what the answer is. -Haan.
They have done and they said, this should not be done. -They said that. -Yes. -So, now
the court is faced with the dilemma that by asserting its own right,
own, you know, -Jurisdiction. -Own jurisdiction, they are basically saying that we
are not accepting the legitimacy of the deva prashna tradition.
And in doing so they are interfering with the Hindu thought and Hindu religion which means they are violating
the freedom of religion of the Hindus. -Exactly. -That's a very important big deal. -Yes.
I mean, it's just like saying to a Christian that I do not accept that you
could virgin birth son of god. I mean, who are they. -Yeah.
That is they are violating the tradition. So, same way if the tradition says that deva prashna
is the methodology of finding out what this supreme person want. -Exactly.
and we have carried out and the supreme person doesn't want what you like, then to overrule
it is a violation of religious freedom. -Definitely. See, simple thing.
Can the Supreme Court, if outside my house I put a board, no women between this age and that age can come inside.
Somebody goes to the supreme court and says gender equality. -It's your private home. -My private home, my wish.
When you, -Who should come inside who should not come. -If you have a party, if you have a wedding
somewhere, you have a guest list. You decide who is guest and who is not guest. -That's all.
I cannot gate crash and say I have a freedom, right and all that. -All this
problem stems from thinking that it's simply a stone, the deity.
And I also think that there is a fallacy in this argument that when the state gives
money then it becomes the state law to decide how it will run the show.
Because actually the state is not giving any money, the state is paying rent for the land it confiscated. -Right. -Long ago,
The lands of the temple under the British were taken by the state and it was agreed that
they will give so many lacs a year, -Right. -As compensation. So, it's like when you want to build a
highway you take the villager's land and you pay them some money, -Compensation.
You can't say we are giving you a favour, we are giving you a donation or a grant. You are paying
them for actually the amount of money they are paying is some lacs. Whereas the
current value of that property is in thousands of crores. -Right. -So, they have taken a huge
amount of wealth from the temple, paying a tiny amount of rent for it. -Right.
And have the audacity to say we are actually giving you funding. -Now, it is totally unfair for the tradition. -Right.
No respect for the tradition. As if tradition doesn't exist. It's all in people's
mind. -So, this business of secularism doesn't work in our tradition
because secularism is an output of European religious conflicts. -Right. -And
it was developed to keep the religions, the Christianity from
too much interference with affairs of other people because there was intolerance,
there was, they did not respect other deities and other things.
So, secularism was good solution for Europe. And to import it into India is actually
quite a disaster because our tradition doesn't have the same problems.
They have their own inherent, intrinsic characters which has to be respected. -Right.
-With one deity what you can do, you cannot do with another deity.
Right. -With another deity you cannot do. -So, when you, once you, so, the key thing that the secular thinkers quote included,
have not understood in that the one supreme manifest as an infinite variety of personalities and deities.
Each prescribed, each with a certain profile each with a certain, -Desire. -Desire. And our rasa, our procedure, our protocol,
our agama has to be very appropriate for that. And therefore, just because one infinite
manifests in innumerable form does not mean any arbitrary form is valid. -Right.
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