All Music written, performed and produced by Clark Ball
Hello and welcome to Spirited History with LeeAnne and Angela we aspire to bring
attention to historic sites with a spirited past from around the United
States each featured site podcast will include guest interviews, the history of
the featured location, paranormal evidence and links to the featured site
some podcasts will also include the following segments "Batgirls Cave of
Paranormal Delights" and "Tidbits from Lodemas Lair, so please join us as we
journey through Spirited History
LeeAnne:And welcome to spirited history I'm LeeAnne Angel: And I am Angela LeeAnne: And it is Friday
night which means we're going to be delving into the paranormal and the
supernatural. This week we're continuing with
Spiritualism we're going to be talking about the famous Fox sisters and their
connection with Spiritualism, tell you a little bit more about what happened to
their lives and we're gonna kick it off with one of our segments which one is it
Angela: We're gonna to be doing a "Batgirls Cave of Paranormal Delights" LeeAnne: mmm delicious.
Alright my friends snuggle in and we'll find out more about the Fox sisters
LeeAnne: Hello and welcome to "Batgirls Cave of Paranormal Delights" tonight we'll be
exploring the Fox sisters and their connection to modern Spiritualism
according to Raymond Buckland who wrote "The Spirit Book the Encyclopedia of
Clairvoyance, Channeling and Spirit Communication" the modern Spiritualist
movement came to the forefront because of the Fox sisters once publicity on the
remarkable supernatural occurrences surrounding the Fox sisters was made
public this movement took off like wildfire. During its heyday the
Spiritualist movement had over 1 million followers. We will now focus on the Fox
sisters and their direct involvement in Spiritualism the Fox sisters were three
sisters from New York who played an important role in the creation of
Spiritualism. Leah was born in 1831, Margaret 1833 and Kate
in 1837. The two younger sisters used rappings to convince their older sister
and others that they were communicating with spirits, their older sister then
took charge of them and manage their careers for some time, they all enjoyed
success as mediums for many years. When their girls were young the Fox family
moved into a cottage in Hydesville, New York on December 11th and 1847 This is
the house where the supernatural activity began. Their home is described
as being a small weatherboard home with a basement, two parlors, a pantry and a
bedroom. From the first night at the location this Methodist family reported
experiencing unusual activity. The activity reported was that of
unexplained *rap rap rap* rappings that echoed throughout the small home upon
investigation nothing could be found to be making
these rapping sounds. The knockings kept occurring every day and soon began to
terrify this family. The activity on the night of Friday March 31st 1848 was
exceptionally active and is described by Mrs. Margaret Fox as the following, "It
was very early when we went to bed on this night, hardly dark. I had been so
broken of rest I was almost sick. I had just lain down, it
commenced as usual. I knew it from all the other noises that I had heard before
the children who slept in the other bed in the room heard the rappings and
tried to make similar sounds by snapping their fingers." Mrs. Fox goes on to
explain who Mr. Split-foot is, which is another name for the devil.
"My youngest Cathy said, 'Mr Split-foot do as I do.'
*clap clap clap* clapping her hands the sound instantly followed her with the same number of
raps *clap clap clap* when she stopped the sounds ceased for a short time then Margaret said in
sport, 'No just do as I do count 1 2 3 4' striking one *clap* hand *clap* against *clap* the other *clap* at
the same time and the raps came as before she was afraid to repeat them I
then thought I could put a test that no one in the place could answer I asked
the noise to rap my different children's ages successively
instantly each one of my children's ages was given correctly pausing between them
sufficiently long enough to individualize them until the seventh at
which a longer pause was made and then three more raps were given corresponding
to the age of the little one that died which was my youngest child I then asked,
'Is this a human being that answers my question so correctly there was no rap I
asked, 'Is this a spirit? If it is make two raps.'
*rap rap* Two sounds were given as soon as the request was made." Communication continued
further with the Fox sisters and Mr. Split-foot, the sisters found out the
following information he was a 31 year old man his profession was that of a
peddler he had been murdered in that very home and he was asked if he would
continue the rapping sounds even if they brought others in to hear him and he
answered yes. Mrs. Fox then thought to bring in one of the neighbors a Mrs.
Redfield. Mrs. Fox had stated the following, "The girls were sitting up in
bed clinging to each other and trembling in terror.
Mrs. Redfield came immediately, about half-past seven thinking well she'd have
a laugh at the children but when she saw them pale with fright and nearly
speechless she was amazed and believed that there
was something more serious than she had supposed Mrs. Fox goes on to say, "I asked
a few questions for her and she was answered as before her age exactly then
her husband was called in and the same questions were answered." Next Mrs. Fox
called in other neighbors the Doolers, the Hydes the Jewels who experienced the
same activity the spirit also shared with these witnesses all the details of
his murder. He was murdered with a butcher knife and all of his money was
taken and his body was buried down below the house. After this Mrs. Fox and the
girls were terrified and they left the house leaving all the people still there
engaged and listening to the rapping sounds. The next evening Saturday it's
reported that three hundred people had gathered to witness this phenomena at
the cottage and during that time more information was learned about Mr Split-foot
about him being buried several in the group immediately began to dig and
they unearthed hair and a few bones which they deemed to be human. The Fox
family experienced so much supernatural activity at this cottage that they began
to show signs of stress it's reported that Margaret Fox's hair turned
completely gray within a week of the activity and with that two of the
children were immediately sent away Kate was sent to live with her brother in
Auburn New York and Margaret to stay with her sister Leah in Rochester New
York but the rappings continued at that
cottage according to an article in The Smithsonian magazine the story might
have ended right here but it did not because Rochester New York was a hotbed
for reform and religious activity. The Finger Lakes region in New York gave
birth to Mormonism and Millerism which is the precursor to the Seventh day
Adventist and there was a large community of Quaker friends there. In
that community were Isaac and Amy Post who were friends at the Fox family they
were intrigued by their story.The post invited the girls to gather at their
home anxious to see if they could communicate with spirits and another
locale, Isaac Post wrote that he was swayed by hearing the very distinct
bumps under the floor and several apparent correct answers to their
questions he was further convinced when Leah Fox seemed to be communicating with
the Posts recently deceased daughter. It would seem that the supernatural
activity followed the two sisters to their new home in Rochester their sister
Leah who was a music teacher by train was given to violent disturbances and
her sister Margaret also they were both targeted with pin pricks and flying
objects Leah stated the pins would be stuck into various parts of their
persons that her mother's cap was removed from her head her comb jerked
out of her hand and every conceivable thing done to annoy them. The girls then
begin to ask the spirit questions again as they had done in Hydesville and
received an even longer message, "Dear friends you must proclaim this truth to
the world this is the dawning of a new era. You must not try to conceal it any
longer, when you do your duty God will protect you and good spirits will watch
over you." With this activity surrounding the girls the post rented a large hall
in Rochester and on November 14 1849 the Fox sisters demonstrated their
spiritualist rappings at the Corinthian Hall. This was the first demonstration of
Spiritualism held before a paying public. Over 400 attended this demonstration of
the unexplained. A group of skeptics came together to investigate the Fox sisters
following their groundbreaking demonstration. The final outcome from
this inquest was that they could find no fraud had been involved. Several in the
group were not happy with the outcome so they pushed for a second investigation.
The second investigation found no fraud was perpetrated by the girls. Now during
this investigation into fraud the girls went through rigorous tests and are
explained as the following they were standing on pillows with a handkerchief
tied around the bottom of their dresses tight to the ankles and
yet still those in the room testing them heard rapping sounds on the wall and
floor distinctly. After their demonstration at the Corinthian Hall and
the inquests Leah was becoming very popular and her ability had blossomed, so
much so that she decided to quit being a music teacher and become the first
professional medium. Soon many others found that they too had the ability and
began to act as channels or mediums. The Fox sisters were so popular that they
went on tour and again each place they went they seemed to be scrutinized.
Mediums were popping up everywhere and so was fraud being perpetrated by many
of these so-called mediums. Because of this the Fox sisters were lumped into
that group as well. By 1850 another investigation into the ladies abilities
of authenticity was conducted this time by Horace Greeley, who was an editor of
the New York Tribune. Those were involved in this investigation were Fenmore
Cooper, George Bancroft, and the poets Willis and Brian among others. The
newspaper reported the following, no fraud could be found many were very
suspicious of the sisters and thought that they were producing these rapping
sounds by cracking their knee and toe joints. An alleged confession was
presented by a relative Mrs. Norman Culver who claimed just this that the
girls were cracking their knee and toe joints she went on further to state that
the girls had had their servant rap on the floorboards down in the cellars
while their dresses had been tied and ankles held with Raymond Buckland's
research into this there were problems with this supposed confession. One the
investigations into the girls committing fraud was conducted in several homes of
committee members and in a public hall over an extended period of time.
Two - the girls didn't have a servant at the time of the investigation into fraud. Three -
Mr Capron was a witness to the fact that during the time of the so-called
confession Kate Fox was actually residing at his home 70 miles away. And
four - the amount of accurate information the sisters were producing was astounding.
There were many who felt that these girls were producing fraudulent
rappings those included a physician, E.P. Longworthy who investigated these
sisters and felt that the raps were coming somehow from under their dresses
many came to the same conclusion and one even thought that they had some type of
contraption up under their dress that was producing the sounds. The Fox sisters
were being pressured not only to perform but also to be tested and questioned
over and over again throughout their lifetime. Despite all of this the
Spiritualist movement continued to grow in popularity. This has been "Batgirls
Cave of Paranormal Delights." Let's join LeeAnne and Angela as they
delve deeper into the lives of the Fox sisters and Spiritualism. Angela: Well that was a
fantastic little foray into the Fox sisters and a little bit more
information about their part in the Spiritualist kind of lifestyle. LeeAnne: Yes and
so for clarification let's go ahead and just find out exactly what Spiritualism
is, Ang can you give us a little bit more information on what exactly Spiritualism
is? Angela: Sure now according to the National Spiritualist Association of Churches.
Spiritualism is all about truth. The truth that there is an afterlife, the
truth that there is a spirit world, the truth that they do come back and
communicate with us, the truth that we do have guides to help us and guide us that
bring us love that bring us light and helps us to find the inner peace we
search for, that help us to make this a better world to help us to make
ourselves a better individual. So there's a lot of bettering and you know the
spirits being guides you know almost like guardian angels or LeeAnne: yeah. Angela: they're to
kind of guide you through and truth I mean which you know
can be a little ironic when we come to speak about some of these mediums
speaking of such why don't you tell us a little bit about what happened to the
Fox sisters. LeeAnne: Well it seems that Kate and Margaret became better known mediums
giving seances to hundreds of people and many of these early seances were
frivolous where sitters saw insight into personal matters like their finances or
stocks or love affairs but then as they progressed religious significance in
communication and with communication especially centering around deceased
family members and that became pretty much what they were connecting with
giving that spirit message. Now Horace Greeley he was a prominent publisher and
politician and he became kind of a protector of them. He championed their
process and he enabled their movement in higher social circles but here's the
thing their parents weren't involved in all of
this without that supervision of both of these young women began to drink wine
and that is going to affect their lives tremendously. Tell us a little bit about
Margaret Fox. Angela: Well in 1852 Margaret actually met her common-law husband Dr.
Elisha Kane. His claim to fame was that he was an arctic explorer. He was Roman
Catholic as well and there's reports that he felt that the sisters were not
being truthful about where the rapping sounds were coming from he felt that
they were committing fraud. He wanted his wife Margaret to actually get an
education and leave Spiritualism he was able to convince her to convert to the
Roman Catholic faith. He actually died in 1857 and she returned then to her
activities as a medium. His family refused to honor his wishes and have her
you know give her the money to her education in 1865 she published his
letters and then he had written to her, possibly somewhat altered
and called it the love life of Dr. Kane. After her conversion to Roman
Catholicism in 1858 she seldom served as a spirit medium so you know she had a
break in her her mediumship but she went back to it after his death and then in
1876 she joined her sister Kate who has moved to England which we'll find out
about a little bit. LeeAnne: That's interesting to me so, she actually gives it up Angela: mm-hmm
LeeAnne: because I guess her common-law husband and probably pressures from the church
itself. Angela: Tell us a little bit about Leah. LeeAnne: Leah Fox oh she's described as tall, stout and
very pleasant looking. Now Leah had several husbands her first marriage was
to a gentleman named Mr. Fish and that was in the 1840s now in doing some of
the research I found evidence on both sides that he either deserted the family
or he died no one is really sure. She went on to marry a gentleman named
Calvin Brown in 1851 and he died by 1853 Angela: Not having good luck.
LeeAnne: No she's not, bless her heart, as we say in the South, bless her heart. Angela: Bless her heart.
mm-hmm. Then she married Daniel Underhill and he was an insurance executive and
Spiritualist himself, just like a perfect match and that was in 1858. She had three
children and unfortunately all three died when they were young. Angela: Aw that's sad. LeeAnne: In
the book, "The Spiritualist" written by Ruth Brandon there are quotes that she
says that Leah actually exploited her sisters in the interest of founding a
new religion, Spiritualism. Whatever her motives Leah appears to have been the
most well-adjusted of the three sisters and seemingly capable in dealing with
notoriety that surrounded the family. It had to be hard. Angela: Yeah. LeeAnne: You're having people who
are wanting desperately these messages from their loved ones who have passed on
then you have those that are tied into the religious affiliations then you have
those that are complete skeptics and are trying to prove you wrong everywhere you go so
it had to be very difficult to deal with. She was
living in Rochester New York with her first husband and family around the time
of the first rappings at the Fox home in Hydesville and she along with the
gentleman named Mr. Capron managed the sisters during their public
demonstrations of their mediumship. She had been a music teacher was one of her
first jobs but as she progressed in accelerating her mediumship she decided
that it was time to quit her job as a music teacher and she became the first
professional medium. Angela: interesting LeeAnne: mm-hmm she would give only private sittings and
never accepted any money for her services. Angela: Well that's interesting to me I
mean because it says earlier you know Ruth Brandon's book she's saying that
she exploited her sisters yet when she did it herself
it seems it doesn't match up you know if she's not charging these people for
these private sittings how is she exploiting her sisters but
also being so giving of her services. LeeAnne: And see that's what I've been finding in the
research for these sisters I'm finding contradictory information on both sides
and both sides of a controversy that we're going to talk about later on and
it's a little confusing. It's interesting to me that even the historic record is a
little in flux I can tell you that Sir Conan Doyle stated the following, that
the eldest Fox sister stated the following about Leah, "Of Leah it can
truly be said that she recognized the religious meaning of the movement far
more clearly than her sisters were able to do and that she set her face against
that of use of it for purely worldly objects which is a degradation of the
celestial." Angela: Yeah see again he's saying you know I don't think she exploited
Spiritualism or her sisters I feel like she was the only one that really was a
Spiritualist almost it sounds like he's saying. LeeAnne: You know I take a little bit more
value and what he's saying because of the time period and when these records
were written. Now tell us a little bit about Kate Fox. Angela: Kate as described by John
Page Hopps said she was "a small, thin, very
intelligent, but rather simpering little woman, LeeAnne: Oh no. Angela: with nice, (gentle) manners and a
quiet enjoyment of her experiments which entirely saved her from the slightest
touch of self-importance or affectation of mystery." of the three sisters she was the
most active in her mediumship activity she had begun drinking very early in her
life to deal with that stress of her popularity and the very hectic schedule
that she kept. For Kate a "Society for the Diffusion of Spiritual Knowledge" was
established in 1855 and it sponsored free public sittings. LeeAnne: Interesting. Angela:Yeah
well in the winter of 1865 a doctor Edward Bayard actually became very
interested in Kate and he was concerned for her health because of the amount of
alcohol she was actually drinking. LeeAnne: Oh Angela: He had her sent to a sanatorium so she
could be received by Dr. George Henry Taylor's Swedish Movement Cure, so she
LeeAnne: Cure the cure Angela: Yeah, so she remained at the sanatorium
until 1871 October and then she set sail for England and as we said eventually
her sister joined her there "The Cure" did not work she, was still drinking this
time so Kate actually had a client named Mr. Charles F. Livermore, and he was
a New York banker um in his gratitude for delivering very cherished messages
and manifesting his beloved dead wife to appear before his eyes at one of her
private sessions he actually financed the trip to England. So in 1871 she
arrived in England she attends services at the first Spiritualist Church which
had been established in 1853 in Yorkshire. Now while in England Kate
conducted séances for well-known psychic investigator professor William Crookes
he was a physicist during one of her seances a reporter of the London Times
actually wrote that upon arriving at the sands he'd been asked to stand by her
and hold her hands as soon as did this loud banging began to emanate
from the wood panels on the walls of the room he said this pounding sound as if
someone was taking their fists and pounding it on the walls it was so loud
the reporter states that he went on to examine Kate and he could not find
anything on her making these sounds he even had her legs and her feet held and
the sounds continued. LeeAnne: Goodness! Angela: yeah so Professor Crookes wrote about one of her
séances stating, "I was holding the mediums two hands in one of mine while her feet
rested on my feet. Paper on the table before us, and my
disengaged hand was holding a pencil. A luminous hand came down from the upper
part of the room, after hovering near me for a few seconds, took the pencil from
my hand, rapidly wrote on the sheet of paper,
threw the pencil down, and then rose above our heads, gradually fading into
the darkness." LeeAnne: Wow! This is not only just rappings we're now having manifestation
of a disembodied hand Angela: yep LeeAnne: Glowing, and we're having some automatic writing. Angela: Yeah
LeeAnne: Interesting. Angela: And things are floating and disappearing like the pencil, like first it
threw down and then it rose up and faded into the darkness. So she was doing a lot
of this over in England what else did she get up to while she was over there?
LeeAnne: Well she met one of England's earliest Spiritualist and barrister-at-law a Mr.
H. D. Jancken and in December of 1872 they were married. I found this interesting
little tidbit from "The History of Spiritualism" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
and he actually talks a little bit about their wedding and he says that the
spirit people took part in the proceedings for at the wedding breakfast
loud raps were heard coming from various parts of the room and the table on which
stood the wedding cake was repeatedly raised from the floor. Angela: Oh my goodness
LeeAnne: I bet that was a hopping wedding. There are descriptions of her work and which say
that her mediumship consisted chiefly of raps often heard with great power I mean
you know earlier you were saying that pounding of
fists so that been pretty wild. Angela: yeah, on the wall LeeAnne: Spirit lights, direct automatic writing,
the appearance of those materialized hands and full-body apparitions, yes and
on a number of occasions objects in the seance room were moved by spirit energy
and in some cases brought from another room musical, musical instruments such as
accordions and bells which float about the room making unearthly music so
there's talk about the luminous substances, tell us a little bit more
about what that substance kind of looked like and felt like. Angela: yeah in the presence
of a Mrs. Makdougall Gregory and a Mr. W.H. Harrison who was the editor for the
London newspaper and others a hand appeared just like floating hand
carrying some sort of phosphorescent material it was about four inches square
the floor was struck and the sitter's face was touched and the light they felt
the light and it was cold. LeeAnne: that's crazy. Angela: Yeah creepy. LeeAnne: Well interesting enough a
few years earlier at a seance at her house on December 14th 1873 on the first
anniversary of their wedding a spirit message was wrapped out "When shadows
fall upon you think of the brighter side." Now this is pretty prophetic because of
what's gonna happen towards the end of their lives
Angela: yeah LeeAnne: So chuck that little tidbit in the back of your mind folks, cause uh it's pretty
interesting. Now his her husband died when? Angela: In 1881.
Now they did have two sons together who were actually said to be psychic as well
Kate decided in 1885 to go back to the United States her drinking problem had
actually become acute at this point, which sounds like it's been acute for a
while but she was to the point where in 1886 she was arrested in Rochester for
being drunk in public. LeeAnne: Oh my gosh. Angela: Yeah and then in May of 1888 she was again
arrested and this time her sons actually got taken away from her by the
Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children.
So now Margaret was still in England at this time and actually beginning to
campaign denouncing Spiritualism and their work as mediums. Her older sister
Leah refused to make any kind of public comment on this. LeeAnne: Now this is where we get
different opinions and different facts. At this time Margaret she's by herself
she has gotten to the point where she doesn't have much money she's been
drinking herself she's angry about what's happened with her sister Kate and
the Spiritualist Church along with Leah supposedly had been behind really
pushing for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children to get involved in this because
of her sisters drinking and Margaret had converted back to Catholicism because
she felt betrayed so she's pretty angry at this point and that letter campaign
that she's doing she's going to push it to go a little bit further than that so
some people feel like this caused terrible conflict between the sisters
you know it's basically two sisters against another. Angela: Right. LeeAnne: mm-hmm, but then
you have this other side that it, that is saying Leah was there even though she
didn't come forward with anything she was providing a haven for the two
sisters Kate and Margaret because they did end up coming and staying with
her some. I mean there's two sides of it there are some statements from Kate that
we'll get into that sort of says maybe Leah was trying to do good by the
children and also her sister because she. Angela: Right. LeeAnne: She seems to have had a bad effect with
alcohol right what did they do what did what did Margaret actually do? Angela: So in
October of 21st of 1888 she went to the Academy of Music in New York and did a
big huge exclusive testimony basically and charged tickets and stuff and people
came and she told everyone that it was fake and she produced rapping sounds to
back up her testimony. Kate was with there with her, she
remained silent through the whole thing but many felt that this was her
endorsing her sister's testimony because she wasn't like no it's not true we
really are mediums you know she just sat there and let Margaret tell this story
of the origins of the mysterious rappings and signed a confession. LeeAnne: Oh my
gosh. Angela: It was given to the press and published in the New York World and in
it she explains all the Hydesville events as children. LeeAnne: So she just basically
said everything she could against Spiritualism against what they had done
she was denouncing everything and just put it out there in writing. Angela: She did, she
wrote it down she basically said the whole story that you know they did it
for this reason and how they did it and why they did it and everything. LeeAnne: after she
did that Margaret tried to take this denouncing of Spiritualism on tour and
yeah let's just say it was not successful and it was a financial
failure. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle writes in his book, "The History of Spiritualism"
that Kate states that Leah was the one who caused her arrest last spring and
the bringing of the preposterous charges that Kate was cruel to her children she
then went on to say, "I don't know why it is that she's always been jealous of
Maggie" that's her name for Margaret "and me; I suppose because we could do things
in Spiritualism that she couldn't." Angela: Interesting. LeeAnne: mmm I mean isn't that
something like a sibling would say, 'I'm better than you are.' Angela: yeah, especially a younger sibling
there's a significant age gap really because they were just young girls and
she was already out of the house and married when the rappings first started
LeeAnne: Well here's where it gets interesting by November 11th 1888 after all that
turmoil all that denouncing by the by Margaret and Kate. Kate actually writes a
letter to a friend and she says the following, 'I would have written to you
before this but my surprise was so great on my arrival to hear of Maggie's
exposure of Spiritualism that I had no heart to write anyone. The manager of the
affair engaged the Academy of Music the very largest
place of entertainment in New York and it was filled to overflowing
they made $1,500 clear. I think that now that I could make money proving that
the knockings were not made with toes. So many people come to me to ask me about
this exposure of Maggie's that I have to deny myself to them. They're hard at work
to expose the whole thing if they can but they cannot.' So here she's saying no
this this is real right I don't care what Maggie said. Angela: Right I can prove that
I'm not lying it's interesting to note that back in the day $1500 was like
$40,000 maybe mm-hmm so you have to remember that and I mean that's a little
significant amount of money. LeeAnne: And she's hurting for money at this time. Angela: Right, so
you know you can kind of almost between being just inundated with all these
people trying to tell her to denounce it it's evil or you know being mad at her
sister and and saying Spiritualism is fake and mediumship is fake. LeeAnne: Well a year
later Margaret actually gives an interview to
the New York Press again and what is she saying during that? Angela: Well this time she
says, "Would to God that I undo the injustice I did the cause Spiritualism
when, under the strong psychological influence of a persons imitable to
it, I gave expression to utterances that had
no foundation in fact. This retraction and denial has not come about so much
from my own sense of what is right as from the silent impulse of the spirits
using my organism at the expense of the hostility of the treacherous horde who
held out promises of wealth and happiness in return for an attack on
Spiritualism, and whose hopeful assurances were deceitful." so basically
she recanted she's saying these people came to me they told me if I denounced it
they would give me money and now the spirits are mad at me because I've lied
and said they're not there but they're really here so they're using my body and
they're gonna come forth and they're gonna tell you that this is all real
LeeAnne: Yeah exactly. Well she goes on to say that that there
wasn't any truth to what she said about
Spiritualism she basically says when I made those dreadful statements I was no
responsible for my words it was genuineness and then they asked her do
you propose to hold séances and she said no I will devote myself entirely to
platform work as that will find me a better opportunity to refute the foul
slanders uttered against me. Angela: And against Spiritualism you know things that she
said. LeeAnne: Exactly, no, I'm gonna be good now. Angela: Now, she was also asked about her sister Kate and
what she thought about this over here which time and she was like she has
complete sympathy with me she did not approve of my course in the past which
she didn't but she never spoke up against it so many people felt she did
and then they were asked what are you gonna have a manager for your lecture
tour and she was like, "No sir!" LeeAnne: yeah. Angela: I have a horror of them, so you know she feels
that she was just treated the most horribly by Frank Stechen and he acted
shamefully with her and he made a lot of money she says and then left her
penniless in Boston and all she got from him was at the very beginning five
hundred and fifty dollars was given to her at the beginning of her contract and
then he just made bank on her and never gave her another penny. LeeAnne: Well it sounds
like she got a third. Angela: mmm LeeAnne: $1,500 she got a third. Angela: Right. LeeAnne: Interesting at that point
Margaret tried to do another tour and this time doing the platform work like
she said and I'll be good and it just was another failure because at this
point all the drama all the back-and-forth just served no purpose
for either her or Kate and both ladies sank further into poverty, humiliation
and drink. Now the last years of their lives what happened during that Ang? Angela: Well
essentially they're there they never got their popularity back or made any kind
of financial gain again practicing in Spiritualism and they both died in
poverty the three Fox sisters actually all died within a year or two of each
other. LeeAnne: oh my gosh, Leah died in 1890 from
Heart Disease upon her death she was mourned by Spiritualists around the
world and she is buried in Brooklyn New York at the Greenwood Cemetery. Angela: Now Kate
she died of surprise Alcoholism and Nephritis at her home which was located
at 609 Columbus Avenue in New York City on July in 1892 two years after her
sister Leah. LeeAnne: what is Nephritis? Angela: Nephritis is inflammation of the Kidney and it
could very well have been due to the Alcoholism. LeeAnne: Gotcha,
well Margaret now she suffered from extreme Alcoholism, Edema and Heart
Failure at the time of her death. Angela: Goodness LeeAnne: Yeah, she had been living on
charity as a sole tenant of an old tenement house on West 56th Street in
New York she was taken to a home of a Spiritualist Mrs. Emily B Ruggles in
Brooklyn and that is where she died on March 8th,1893 and there's some
interesting final words you want to share those Ang? Angela: Yeah, it's interesting
now when Margaret was on her deathbed and she was extremely ill I mean
obviously she had Edema, Heart Failure and the Alcoholism just ravished her
body a doctor, not a Spiritualist, who attended her on the day that she died
actually went to a meeting with the MEDICO Legal Society of New York in 1905
so she died in 1893 so in 1905 Doctor Mellon states that as Margaret was lying
in a bed in the treatment house according to him she was unable at that
time to move hand or foot yet knocking came from the wall the floor and the
ceiling an answer to Margaret's faint questions, she was as incapable of
cracking her toe joints at the time as I was the doctor said so these loud
knocking and rappings were happening to answer questions that she was asking
she you know she couldn't move her hands or feet at all. LeeAnne: And it was still
manifesting. Angela: Yes. LeeAnne: Huh both Kate and Margaret are buried in Brooklyn at the
Cypress Hills Cemetery and still though Spiritualism flourished it's still
flourishing today and everyone is still searching for that
answer to your questions and making that connection to loved ones can we actually
communicate with spirit of those loved ones who have passed and what happens to
us when we do pass it's still as interesting today as it was then. Let's
explore a little deeper into some of the facts and findings concerning the Fox
sisters could the rappings and the pin manifestations the pin pricking that
were happening to Leah the moving and throwing of objects could it have been
poltergeist activity what do you think? Angela: Could've I mean they were young so
there's theories in parapsychology that children of this age give off this raw
energy and it can cause the spontaneous physical activity but there's you know
there's some problems with this theory the activity had an intelligence about
it. LeeAnne: mm-hmm. Angela: It wasn't just like random things happening this activity answered
questions and giving a name and the poltergeist activity is typically
unpredictable and uncontrollable so.. LeeAnne: mm-hmm Angela: that doesn't quite fit what was
happening. LeeAnne: Exactly I agree there are theories about creating Tulpa and if
these girls were doing this over and over again combined with that
pre-adolescent energy there are theories and beliefs and religion different
religions that you can actually create a thought form and manifest it into a Tulpa.
Angela: Yeah I mean if they wanted to make up the story. LeeAnne: Mr. Split Angela Yeah. LeeAnne: Mr. Split-foot
Angela: Yeah. LeeAnne: And they're doing it over every day all the time and for.. Angela: Pranking their mom. LeeAnne: And for
their neighbors. Angela: Yeah eventually it manifests and it becomes a real thing.
LeeAnne: There was actually more unusual activity attached to that house in Hydesville New
York before the Fox family moved in it's interesting to me that there were
several different families that had lived there that kind of fled because of
the sounds emanating from it that I find interesting and there's one family in
particular, the Bell family that supposedly a
peddler did come and visit the house and left suspiciously. one of the maids
reported, so that's interesting that this activity was happening before that
but then as you'd said earlier the Fox sisters were trying to scare their
mother and I'm going a little bit more about that I want to I want to find out
some more about this prank stuff. Angela: Right so you know the sisters decided that
they were gonna do an April Fool's prank on their mom so they like tied strings
to apples and they repeatedly and rhythmically dropped them down the stairs to
mimic like footsteps they found that they could also make these rapping
sounds by cracking their knuckles and toes and again this is a theme that
we've heard over where they've they've said that they're doing knuckle rap
rapping you know. LeeAnne: Exactly. Angela: But Mrs. Fox was very superstitious and she was
convinced that that farmhouse was haunted now they took pity on their
terrified mother and they offered a hint of explanation saying Oh mother I know
what it is tomorrow is April Fool's Day and it's somebody trying to fool us she
refused to believe that she wanted this ghost to be real, they were afraid to
confess because they didn't want their mother to get so angry you know their
parents to get angry at them so they just kept going with it and instead of
admitting the trickery they just went along with it and eventually neighbors
were being brought in the show and they knew at this point there was no way that
they explained without causing a huge thing so they just went along with it
and this is according to Maggie who wrote this in her 1888 memoir "The Death
Blow to Spiritualism" LeeAnne: Well at that point it's like a rock going downhill you
cannot stop it and you've got all these people involved and it would embarrass,
ostracize the family besides the parents I'm getting angry now you have the
community involved. Angela: Yeah, I mean if there was people coming over to witness this
this is interesting 56 years later according to report in The Boston
Journal in 1904 an entire human skeleton found after the basement wall and the
Fox's cottage collapsed. Angela: Wow. LeeAnne: And along with that skeleton supposedly there was
a peddlers box found, Angela: Oh, wow. LeeAnne: Yeah and there was a name on it a Charles B. Rosna and
the tin box is said to be on view at the Lily Dale museum supposedly. Now to
counter that skeptical researcher Joe Nickell concluded after researching the
box and primary sources of the bones that they constituted further hoaxing he
says that the bones were at least in part those of animals and he feels like
there's been no confirmation that the peddler existed. Angela: Right, I mean all's they
have is the word from a maid that worked for the Bell family. LeeAnne: mm-hmm, well
basically you have the the maid her testimony and then the girls coming,
coming up with whatever on there their mind Angela: Right. LeeAnne: Or, or it's all true Angela: Right. LeeAnne: Now some
of the details about how the committee and panel tested the girls are a little
alarming she was actually stripped naked by a group of women in a private room
they were all examined their, their bodies their clothing to see if they had
any devices sewn into it that would produce the rapping clicking tap - sounds
none were found and while they were doing this
the sounds of rapping still emanated throughout the room. Angela: Right. LeeAnne: Next the women
began to examine bodies for any signs that Margaret was manipulating her
joints or cracking them to produce the rapping sounds no fraud was found during
this examination the rapping sound still continued to emanate from the room they
were dressed and sent to another room and this room there was a group of men a
committee, let's say it that way, and they were asked to climb onstage they had to
stand on pillows they bound their skirts tightly around their knees and ankles so
they could not move them then they tied a handkerchief around their mouth to
prevent them from speaking or saying any noise again no fraud was found and the
rapping sounds continued to emanate again these naysayers really weren't
happy and they had to do a second test and that found nothing it's difficult
for me to believe complete fraud when some of the noise people describe is so
loud. Angela: Yeah, I mean unless they could throw that you know like ventriloquist's kind
of thing but how do you do that you know without somebody noticing like
LeeAnne: Unless they were throat singers or something like that. Angela: Yeah, deep throat, you know they're women with
little voices probably you know the way they're described I don't understand how
they would make a knocking noise with their throat or anything so you know a
lot of people wonder why would people even believe in spirit communication
during this time even today people still believe in spirit communication but back
then why would they believe this and you know Lily Dale Assembly actually brings
up a very good point they were saying that at this time this is when science
was just starting. New discoveries were happening during the mid 1800s Samuel
Morris actually started sending messages with the Telegraph. LeeAnne: mm-hmm
Angela: These messages were manifested with electrical signals that traveled over
wires so why couldn't disembodied voices from spirits be sent through a spiritual
Telegraph such as Margaret and Kate Fox and millions believe that this could
happen. LeeAnne: I could see that, well it's interesting too with this type
of platform work the women we're doing going into this trance it really
empowered women to come out and speak publicly their mind. If you think about
it it separates them as being oh I'm not responsible I'm in trance I'm in a
trance the Spirit is guiding me they didn't have to be aware of social
standings or what their husbands or Father's or family wishes were they
could actually say things on their minds about religion and politics and social
issues and families and women's rights and I find that very empowering at this
time that it it sort of opened up that floodgate of communication for
empowering women. Angela: Definitely I mean it did it gave them a voice. (Even if it was somebodies else's voice)
LeeAnne: Well this has been very interesting delve
into Spiritualism and the Fox sisters. I definitely learned a lot I didn't know
and I'm seeing to some subjects that we may need to have on Spirited History
like what a seance is and what usually happens in that. Angela: Yeah definitely, there's
some great books that you have used for your research which of those would
you recommend for more research into Spiritualism. LeeAnne: I would recommend "The
History of Spiritualism Volumes 1 & 2" by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle I would also have
"The Spirit Book on hand The Encyclopedia of Clairvoyance, Channeling and Spirit
Communication" by Raymond Buckland very interesting and good read I look to at
this interesting one "The Death Blow to Spiritualism as Revealed by Authority of
Margaret Fox Kane and Catherine Fox Jenkin" by Davenport Ruben Briggs that's
interesting look and you get to hear their voices as well and there's a great
book called "Notable women 1607 to 1950 a Biological Dictionary" by Edward T James
and Radcliffe College which is nice. I'd also say check out the Lily Dale
Assembly's website for more information on Spiritualism and see if you want to
make a pilgrimage and go see what it's like up at the Lily Dale Assembly. Angela: Yeah,
definitely, I mean that sounds like a fun trip it would definitely be something
I'd be interested I know they have like a little forest section where they have
fairy cottages and there's tons of mediums up there and just a lot of
history you know if there's museums and stuff so definitely an interesting place
to go check out. LeeAnne: There's also classes and workshops and mediumship and other
Spiritualist subjects and there are opportunities to hear some of the
mediums speak publicly and and possibly give you a message. Angela: Well this has been a
wonderful show. LeeAnne: We want to thank everyone for journeying through Angela: Spirited History
have a wonderful weekend everybody. LeeAnne: Goodnight.
All Music written, performed and produced by Clark Ball
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